POLL: BIONICLE G1 Canonization Contests?

LEGO BIONICLE
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  • Yes, I want more canon contests!
  • No, I don’t want any more canon contests.
  • I don’t really care either way.
  • Other (Post below and elaborate)
0 voters

UPDATE ON POST #125

NOTE: Don’t even try to make duplicate accounts to influence the results of this vote. We are easily able to check that, it’s not worth your time or ours, and we will ban not only the dupe account, but your primary account as well. Please don’t even bother with it.

Hello everybody! I’ve got a pretty interesting and important poll for you today that’s going to run for THREE WEEKS; specifically, this poll is in regards to the possibility of more canon competitions for BIONICLE characters! First, though, a little information:

For those unaware, around a decade ago Greg Farshtey would participate in these canon contests over on BS01 and KanohiJournal, where they would hold artwork and MoCing competitions for characters who never showed up in visual media. People would submit their entries and then the community would vote on them in poll format, with Greg taking a look at the winning entry and canonizing it as the official interpretation of that character in the BIONICLE story. Noteworthy examples include the MoC contests for Certavus, Tobduk, and the Alternate Teridax, as well as the artwork contests for Nikila and Surel. These were loved by many people, as it allowed for community contributions to the BIONICLE theme whilst also providing some visualization for characters that would otherwise forever exist only with a written description of their appearance.

Recently, Greg gave this answer to a community question regarding the possibility for more of these competitions:

“If the community was okay with this, I would be willing to do it.”

This is an exciting prospect, as there are numerous characters from the BIONICLE story who, to this day, remain without an official depiction. This ranges from major characters such as Artahka, Helryx, and the remaining Toa Hagah, to more minor or recent additions to the BIONICLE story, such as Marendar, the Gold Skinned Being, or the Toa from the Yesterday Quest (Orde, Chiara, and Zaria). That’s not to say that all of those would DEFINITELY receive a contest, but the potential is there for a large amount of community collaboration with Greg to finally assign visuals to some of these characters.

We at TTV are definitely interested in this prospect, and are ready and willing to work with Greg to host and manage these contests on the TTV Message Boards. However, we respect his desire to ONLY entertain the notion of these contests if it is something the community TRULY wants. Ergo, we reached out to Greg privately, and he has given us his permission to create this public poll as a way to gauge interest in this idea and determine if these contests are really something the community would like to see again in this modern era of BIONICLE.

As a note… the BIONICLE community is vastly different than it was 10 years ago, and the physical landscape of LEGO has changed a lot as well. 3D printing, CCBS pieces, G2 masks and pieces, digital creations on LDD or Studio… all of these are worthwhile discussion points that we will have with the community in the future, provided this poll results in a favorable outcome. Feel free to chime in with your thoughts about those issues, but be aware that this poll PRIMARILY exists for the purpose of gauging general interest in the IDEA, rather than figuring out the specific DETAILS of rules and restrictions. That will come later.

Please spread this around to all facets of the BIONICLE community and urge them to vote in this! We are aware that there are tons of other BIONICLE fans that exist elsewhere on the internet, and we want their voices heard on this matter! So please share this poll and make sure people know that Greg wants to hear what we think about this subject!

36 Likes
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I’d be in favor of it if the rules stipulated against 3D printed parts of any kind. I understand that specific characters have masks and weapons that were never depicted before, but the sheer volume of custom parts and the number of community members with their own printers seriously tips the theoretical balance in favor of those entrants were they to submit a MoC.

On top of that, to have a specific depiction of a character using a 3D printed mask from a specific seller would have the effect of de-legitimizing the dozens of other masks that intend to cover the same power, and has the potential to place an unwanted and unintended clout over a specific designer because their product was declared ‘canon.’ I’ve seen members of the 3D printing side of the community tear others down for their own gain, and its not something I want to see from Bionicle, we’ve got enough bad apples as it is. Alternatively, if a Moc is made canon using a mask designed by a community member that has a very strong negative reaction, that modeler may face the brunt of serious backlash over a singe part.

There is also the notion that Lego would need to claim their copyright over the depiction of the character, which could include a part that they simultaneously do and do not own, the 3D printing side of the AFOL community doesn’t need another mass take-down like we saw late last year.

21 Likes
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I’d be excited for it, it’d be cool to see them come to life in one way or another.

2 Likes
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I’m definitely in favor of canon contests, since there are so many characters that lack a canon depiction.

Also, here’s my two cents on CCBS and 3D printed pieces:

CCBS:
I’m in favor of CCBS being allowed. If used correctly, it can really enhance a build (however, if used incorrectly, it will majorly drag down an otherwise good build).

3D printed pieces:
I could go either way on this one. For certain masks, like Tuyet’s Mask of Intangibility, there are no canon depictions of this mask, and there are no decent substitutes (of course, that’s where artwork could come in). That being said, 3D masks are by no means “purist”, which is where quite a few of the problems will come in.
EDIT: Thanks to @Mesonak’s comment, I’d say that I’m completely fine with 3D printed pieces.

4 Likes
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I’m sure I will elaborate upon this position many times in the future, but let the record show that I 100% support the use of 3D printed and designed masks in these potential contests.

We live in an era where 3D printed parts make up an intrinsic element of the BIONICLE community, and where they are readily able to be purchased and used even by people who don’t have the capability to print them themselves thanks to Shapeways. To limit them feels like an arbitrary restriction upon creativity, and would force some of these very significant characters to potentially use old mask designs, which feels arbitrary, restrictive, and lame.

I understand the concerns around the community side of things in relation to the effect that such a thing could cause, but I don’t think that should be our primary concern. I believe we should concern ourselves first and foremost with creative and excellent designs for these beloved characters, rather than worrying about what toxic individuals may or may not do later on down the line, as there’s no guarantee that anyone would do anything of the sort. Also, I believe the notion that LEGO would need to concern themselves with claiming copyright of the design is ludicrous considering the current state of BIONICLE G1 and canonizations relating to it.

20 Likes
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Well, you’ve convinced me :stuck_out_tongue:
I’m now completely in favor of 3D printed pieces.

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I’m also in favor of the contests, but I believe it shouldn’t just be MOC centered. I want to see artworks for characters to be submitted and considered as canon depictions for these characters.

My reason for that is drawing characters is more accessible than just building a MOC depiction of them. I’m not saying that the MOC depictions aren’t awesome, they are really good, but I also know that Bionicle does have a art-based community to it, and I’d rather not leave them out.

12 Likes
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Definitely agreed. We ideally want to have an even ratio of Art and MoC contests if this gets approved.

5 Likes
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I’m not a big fan of the idea. Characters made out of contest entries is fine by me, but not so much the other way around. I think having canon depictions takes away from the fun of everybody designing their own MOCs of those characters - depictions which are all just as canon as each other: in that none of them technically are, but none outright contradict canon making them all equally viable. I don’t see the need to shoot down 99% of the community’s depictions in favour of one.

I’m aware contests like this have happened before, and I wasn’t a huge fan of it then, and I’m even less so now after atleast a decade of people having their own ideas for how those characters look.

14 Likes
13

Personally, I’m 100% okay with this, but I think this kind of thing would be better as people submitting their ideas without a time limit. (I assume there will be one.) I feel like Greg should be able to take as long as he needs for just the right candidate to be put forth, without the rush of having to choose one within a specific period of time.

5 Likes
14

All Hail The Great Being, Greg Farshtey for blessing us with this opportunity!

I wonder tho why did he agreed to do it? Is there something in devepment in the background? I’d joyful to see a possible new constraction theme.

But even if we don’t ge it, it’s still great we can get mkre details of characters by canonization!

I really wish to see how the rest of the Toa Mangai would looked like on canon by modelling them.

Or Artakha. The Mask of Creation would fit to his character and the best

2 Likes
15

Haven’t posted on these forums in years, but I’m really getting back into MOCcing and I’d love the chance to try to tackle Artahka or Johmak, those being characters I’d planned on designing anyway.

I think that any 3d-prints should be limited to unseen masks but not prioritised as such, if that makes sense. If a clever use of an existing part suffices, I’d rather that didn’t get buried, but I have faith that such contests would be judged fairly. A bias could go either way, after all.

I’m interested as to the Toa Mangai and similar, wherein we’d be filling in the blank in a partially-made picture. Working under those design constraints could be interesting, though I’d rather they weren’t tooo constraining. Perhaps redesigns of the modern-day Iruini and Norik would be possible to counter this, if it is deemed too challenging to mimic those designs while still allowing creativity…

3 Likes
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I think that, given how far out we are from G1’s conclusion, maybe a different perspective and end goal should be taken when it comes to the contests.

Previously, what was great about them was the feeling that I could be the one who creates Tobduk, I could be the one who creates Certavus…and that was great. That was 10 years ago, and it was more likely that wider amounts of the community had access to their complete collections still, and had a wide amount of parts to choose from.

However, this is 10 years AFTER that point. Sure, the idea of I might create artahka is cool, but…wouldn’t a better goal this far out be to get the BEST Artahka?

When I say best, I mean that limiting to specifically lego parts might be limiting. Throw in 3D parts, great. Throw in paperclips, rocks, craft supplies, bits of metal, whatever it takes to make this character come out as best as you can. Heck, if we have a contest for Tren Krom, and someone gets creative with a package of sandwich meat, that would be fine.

What I’m saying is, limiting to MOCing may not be the only way to go. So many people have gone into so many different professions since Bionicle’s cancellation, we may get something cool made to represent a character if we have no bounds (within reason)… Metalworking, sculpture, digital art, paint…anything that can be used to represent the character should be on the table. If I’m wrong, and branching out legitimately doesn’t look good…well, it won’t win the poll then, will it?

This is probably an extreme view, but it’s a thought.

4 Likes
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Eh, what the heck. I’m down. We’ve already had so much stuff explained and canonized, what’s a bit more?

2 Likes
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There were art contests alongside MoCing way back when, and if this poll ends favorably, there definitely will be again. I imagine the ratio to be around 50/50.

I dunno about sandwich meat, but I applaud your creativity. :stuck_out_tongue:

11 Likes
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I want a canonized model of the kikanalo hordika and the rest of the dark hunters that dont have models

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i dont see how any given fan work would gain value by virtue of having greg give it an ok. there’s plenty of art and mocs of things like artahka already - if the deciding factor here is whether or not we think its ok to put a jpg on a wiki, i just dont know if thats really terribly valuable tbh

9 Likes
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At this point, I’m of the mindset that I personally don’t see a need for it, but I’m indifferent so I picked accordingly.

The BIG thing I want to say is, if it does go through, I would not allow 3D printed parts. If you allow a custom mask, you’d need to allow custom everything else. At which point does a MOC become a balance of using a selection of Lego parts versus being able to make a Toa/Matoran/Makuta the best you can with your mad epic 3D printing skills?

That throws me off so hard, I’m sorry.

11 Likes
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I understand your reasoning, and it makes sense - we have far greater unique tools on our hands for creating elements of the Bionicle story that never physically existed before.

However, I am worried about the potential victory of a MOC using a 3d-printed or custom molded piece, namely, the monopolization of its creator now having created a canonical mask design, and being the sole distributor of it. Some could go the route of KhingK and upload the 3d model of their mask or piece for public distribution and only sell physical prints, but it’s unlikely that it would occur - and there’s nothing TTV could do about it if was only sold.

As far as the concept of returning these sort of contests, I am completely in favor of the concept - if it’s ultimately up to Greg how they are run. Otherwise it’s just a TTV contest that Greg has to submit to the answers of.

And I’d like to ask as well, would literature contests be considered? They are just as monumental as definitive character representation and can add large chunks of lore through implications, and writing is primarily what Greg has done in the past, so he would be an excellent judge.

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As stated earlier, I would be for MOCists 3D printing literally every single piece. That being said, the idea of an individual monopolizing a part is…not ideal, as was pointed out.

What about this: you can use as many 3D parts as you wish, but any 3D printed parts must be released for free? Not being super familiar with 3D printing, I assume this would just mean releasing the 3D models for free download (where I am sure someone like Biomedia would quickly archive them), but I may be wrong there.

2 Likes