Are the Rahkshi even relevant?
They’d literally just be the 03 build, with different colors, which we have already known since 2003, and maybe a custom spine and staff… At which point the contest is literally just about making a custom spin and staff, not about making a MOC.
I’m pretty surprised to see the frequent proposal to exclude non-Technic/G1 parts. I absolutely hear the qualms about making it “look Bionicle”, but arbitrary artistic exclusion has never looked good. If it doesn’t look right, it won’t be popular, and it’d be switching off a huge source of potential cleverness for MOCcers. Have a little faith; people aren’t going to be portraying some plated skeleton, at least not the winners.
Johmak is a good example of a character that I think could be enhanced with a few CCBS plates layered with other portions of her armour; I can see her being notably angular and, well, crystalline above some chunkier biomechanical sections. Even System can provide some real cool parts for Bionicle-built stuff; I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to a Power Miner drill or the like.
Lego is compatible with Lego, and MOCcers are honestly clever enough to make it look G1-appropriate without being part-limited. I’m not claiming to be, myself, but even I can make a pretty G1-looking piston with System parts without having to grasp at the 3D-printer. Printed parts, where necessary, may be valid, but why bother when you could be using a perfectly functional HF or G2 piece instead? Honestly, we have a whole bunch of aesthetically pleasing masks without assigned powers nowadays; why not allow the use of them where possible, even if it does involve a different (unseen) head part?
I like this idea. One contest to determine a winner, and another contest to determine whether the winner is canon. I also agree that the community should be involved in choosing which contests to hold.
Then why is Greg even involved?
Define publicly available. I don’t think it’s unfair for the modeler of a mask to receive payment for their work if they want it, especially if the modeler is not the one that ends up getting the mask canonized. It’s entirely possible anyone who’s bought their mask will be responsible for getting it canonized when they put it on an entry.
To demand the modeler make their file accessible because of the actions of someone else is wrong in my eyes.
Some things on regards of 3D printed parts: while it seems a little unfair for those without them, if they’d be allowed, those members would automatically balance this issue by not voting on MOC’s with such pieces, so I don’t think it’d be THAT unfair. I think that there’s other problem, that should be taken to consideration: painting. Some people want to leave their creations not painted, some people also can’t have them painted, but the technique seems more availible, than 3D printing. As for me: I’ve got no opinion regarding this, but I’d like people to consider this.
I guess the idea would be that the first contest decides which MOC the community thinks is best, and the second decides whether the community thinks it is good enough to potentially canonize and then submit to Greg.
I’m gonna just throw in my 2 cents on this, because I’m personally conflicted by the idea myself. As both a MOCist, and a G1 fan-fiction writer, I’m both psyched and worried respectively by the concept of canonizing official appearances for characters who’s appearances have remained largely open to interpretation for almost a decade.
This is my version of Helryx. (Don’t worry, I’m not going in the direction you think I am.) Let’s say there was a contest to canonize Helryx’s appearance, I would definitely enter for the slim chance that the community and Greg would approve this design as canon.
As far as Helryx’s described appearance goes, this MOC fits that description well enough. But as you can see, there’s additions to her character design that could be argued as non-canon. My version has wing-fins (Like Hahli Mahri, which is possible in canon) and an additional sword in her arsenal of tools. As far as current canon is concerned, There’s nothing that says Helryx can’t look like this, and therein lies one of the problems.
What if a design wins the contest with a small design addition, like in my version of Helryx? Wouldn’t her described canon appearance have to be updated? What are the limits of this? Would the community be upset about changing a character’s described appearance because a specific MOC/Drawing won a contest?
Then you have the problem of voting. Design freedom and creative potential for people’s entries would be severely limited if the community only votes for entries that follow canon to a tee.
Plus, right now, there are hundreds, if not thousands of MOCs and Drawings people have already made for Helryx, all of which could be interpreted as canon in their own right. (I’m speaking specifically of creations people have made whose sole purpose is to replicate Helryx’s described canon appearance.) Wouldn’t it be a bit unfair to instantly de-legitimize the work put in to every single one of them in favor of one canon design?
These are the concerns I have. Personally, I don’t care either way if my MOC gets decanonized, but the idea of changing/adding things to G1 canon never did sit right with me, and feels kind of Rowling-Esque. Typically, I take Greg’s canonizations outside official writing as fanon in their own right. But seeing as sites like BS01 and the community as a whole take Greg’s word as absolute, the results of these contests are going to be taken far more seriously than they probably should be in the end.
I’m more leaning toward the mindset that we should leave G1 be, but I can also see why the TTV crew would leap at the opportunity to help expand on the lore of the best years of Bionicle, especially when their platform is the hub for it. Heck, I’d do it myself.
I voted for either way. If it happens, I’ll enter. But if it doesn’t, I admit, I’d be relieved.
Something tells me that Greg will have an opinion after the first period. He’s on the site; there’s no reason he’d ignore it until then.
Also, that somewhat undermines the point of the contest, as now Greg has to see if the community agrees on it first before he can. He shouldn’t have to sit through a double vote, and if the contest exists, there shouldn’t be any question as to the chance of canonization afterwards.
I’d love to have official representations, honestly, but unless there were miraculously to be canon names to differentiate pages for them, it’s probably a moot point tbh.
I’d envision it less as determining canon or not canon so much as determining the degree to which it is canon, and if there is a significant degree of disagreement as to the winner, then said winner could be relegated to a “semi-canon” category where general people are encouraged to take as being canon, but which they can ignore, should they want.
I don’t consider myself an expert in the realm of moccing, much less 3D parts (lore is where I pitch my tent), so take that element of my perspective with a grain of salt, but I’ll expand further on this:
I can agree with that. We’ll probably need to put out a statement that RSG has no plans to reduce their prices if canonized, then. Doing so would break the agreements we’ve made with our concept artists and modelers.
That being said, this is still very much up in the air. A lot could happen between now and the contest, if the contest even happens at all. Everyone needs to wait and see where this starts heading.
I appreciate the thought and the brainstorming in regards to this issue, but we don’t really have any interest in entertaining any sort of semi-canonicity or trying to play to both sides of the “canon debate.” Provided this poll ends favorably, we’ll be working with Greg very closely to ensure that rules, guidelines, and infrastructure are created to make sure there’s nothing that would put the MoC’s “canon credibility” into question. When community members vote in these polls, it should be done with the knowledge that they are supporting a MoC or piece of artwork to become canon in the story. There won’t be any need for a second poll bracket or anything of the sort so long as people are on the same page about that fact.
The way I see it, the double-contest solves a problem that I would call "contest bias."By holding a MOC contest for X, you will end up with a canon MOC for X no matter what. But the MOC that is good relative to the other submissions might not be that good in absolute terms, and it might be better to wait a while for someone to come up with a better MOC. Plus, as @Gonel said, there might be designs that are divisive. I wasn’t thinking of assigning different tiers of canonicity, though.
As for 3D models, maybe the rule should be that you only need to open-source the design IF you win, which would encourage people to submit designs but still hold on to the rights in case they don’t win. @Gonel’s point number 1 is also valid.
@Mesonak In my view, the purpose of the second poll would be to decide whether the community agrees that the winner of the first contest is good enough to become canon, not to decide whether it conforms to canon. Ideally, only canon-compatible models would be entered into (much less win) the first contest.
Do not double post. -Eljay
But this brings us back to the problem of what if a person who didn’t make the mask uses it and wins?
I’m all for this. As a younger fan, I never had the chance to participate in the original contests, so having a chance to participate now sounds almost like a dream come true.
On top of that, the community’s activity has been very limited for the past few years, so having something like this would definitely help a lot in keeping it alive and active. This poll barely got posted less than a day ago, and I am already seeing a lot of members that have been previously inactive suddenly come back.
However, I do not believe 3D printed or custom pieces should be allowed. Not a whole a lot of people actually have access to 3D printing, and I feel like those who do would have a huge advantage over those who don’t, because their MOCs would be more accurate to the character’s description, therefore having a far greater chance of winning.
So to keep the chances of winning equal for everyone, I think 3D printed or custom pieces should’t be allowed (or at least should be very limited).
As far as I am concerned, any potentially divisive entries would be weeded out through the voting process. For instance, I trust the community to not vote on a fully blue and red Artakha MoC built out of nothing but CCBS shells and a 3D printed modified Furno helmet. Hyperbole, I know, but the point is that participating in the polls is all that you need to do in order to make your voice heard on divisive designs.
As far as canonicity is concerned… ultimately that isn’t for the community to decide. Participating in this poll voices your opinion on whether the concept of such a thing interests you, and participating in the potential future contests would voice your opinion on what exactly you would want to see canonized, either by brainstorming a creation yourself or voting on someone else’s. Ultimately, though, the person who has the authority to look at a model and give it the thumbs up or thumbs down should be Greg and Greg alone. He does, of course, reserve the right to say “no” to the winning entry if something doesn’t jive with him. He is bound by no contract to honor the winner simply because it won, that is merely the criteria by which we present it to him, after taking care to refine a rule-set that should not run counter to anything he would prefer.
Additonally, any potential contests will be advertised well in advance across a wide variety of social media platforms, BIONICLE fan community websites, discord servers, youtube channels, and more, so anyone interested in contributing a MoC for consideration should have ample time to create it, perfect it, and submit it without having to fear that a better design will come along that could invalidate theirs. Just as there are mods and remakes to official G1 characters like the Dark Hunters, Toa, Rahi, etc., or even the recent remake of the Miserix model by the original creator, they do not overwrite the canon interpretations simply because they are better MoCs. Yet, by that same token, their existence is not threatened by subjectively “inferior” models being the canon depiction of that character, just as a large scale, white and gold Mata Nui model would not be invalidated by canon Mata Nui being Glatorian-sized and keetorange.
You would not be allowed to submit a design for potential canonization that used a design owned by someone else. But you would be able to submit your own design without needing to give up the rights when you submitted it. You would only need to give up the rights if you won.
In other words you win, but you don’t because your creation is utter trash. Have you seen Miserix?
More seriously, it means that the contest was all for nothing, and would eventually be redone at some point. Or, it would be disregarded entirely, and someone would be assigned to do it. I can’t think of a better way to spite the person who won than to hire someone else to make the MOC they should have made, or to nullify it entirely because it didn’t meet expectations.[quote=“Mesonak, post:61, topic:51213”]
He does, of course, reserve the right to say “no” to the winning entry if something doesn’t jive with him. He is bound by no contract to honor the winner simply because it won, that is merely the criteria by which we present it to him, after taking care to refine a rule-set that should not run counter to anything he would prefer.
[/quote]
Right, there shouldn’t be a double-take to see if possibly, Greg may be satisfied with the end result if we do it again.[quote=“Mesonak, post:61, topic:51213”]
Just as there are mods and remakes to official G1 characters like the Dark Hunters, Toa, Rahi, etc., or even the recent remake of the Miserix model by the original creator, they do not overwrite the canon interpretations simply because they are better MoCs.
[/quote]
Well uh, maybe in some cases we should actually do that
Every original incarnation of the Dark hunters is 100% canon, even if it by today’s (or yesteryear’s) standards nauseates most readers. In my book, Greg’s decision - yes or no - should dictate if a contest on any given character will ever happen again; namely that the end result should be ultimately final once it has been decided.
Hiya! Russian lego fan and a mod at one of the bionicle groups on VK.com here, bringing this to people of vodkaland
I’d love to see this. Greg’s canonization efforts may be questionable by some parts of the community (with which I disagree with), but even they’d have to agree that this is a great idea, seeing how mr. Farshtey left just about everything in the hands of the community. We’re fully free to decide for ourselves on the matter and, even though there’s likely still gonna be complaints, this would be the first time we choose what’s best for us i.e. what fits the story, what looks best and so on.
I greately support this idea and would love to see it come to fruition. Personally, I’m not going to participate as my moccing prowess is, ahem, lacking, and my art basically revolves around pixels, but I know there are hundreds, if not thousands, of truly amazing moccists and artists in the community, to the point where I’d be fully comfortable leaving the depiction of even such emposing characters as Angonce or Arthakha in their hands.
This is what i get for not practicing my art skills 
i’ll try MoC-ing but i’m in the middle of 3 projects
