Power Levels-Bionicle Vs. Ninjago

Just like Bionicle, Ninjago characters make use of elemental powers. The exact functions of the elemental powers may differ, but it’s the same principle. Pretty much every Ninjago character has a Bionicle counterpart.

Kai (fire) -> Tahu, Lhikan, Vakama, Jaller, Ackar (to an extent)

Cole (earth/maybe stone) -> Onua, Whenua, Nuparu, and possibly Pohatu, Onewa, and Hewkii

Jay (lightning) -> the Toa Inika

Zane (ice) -> Kopaka, Nuju, Matoro

Nya (water) -> Gali, Nokama, Hahli, Kiina (to an extent)

Lloyd’s power is a little more vague. Story-wise, he’s comparable to Takanuva, but his power is said to be “energy.” He’s also shown to control fire, ice, earth, and lightning. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a Bionicle equivalent for Lloyd’s “energy” power, except MAYBE plasma.

But for the other comparisons, who is more powerful? With Lightning, it’s an easy choice. The Toa Inika weren’t full-on lightning wielders; lightning was intertwined with their main elemental power, whereas Jay’s elemental power was full-on lightning. Therefore, I think Jay wins that round. Earth…maybe Cole would win. Regardless of where you stand on the Earth Vs. Stone debate in the Bionicle community, Cole seems to possess both powers; chances are, he’ll win that round. But with Water, Fire, and Ice, it’s a little harder. Off the top of my head, the only major feat from any of those was when Nya manipulated a whole wave of water to drown the Preeminent. And Zane creating the Blizzard Samurai doesn’t count, because he had the Scroll of Forbidden Spinjitzu. I’m only talking about pure elemental powers here.

What do you guys think?

I think comparing Jay (elemental control of lightning) to the Inika (primary element plus some lightning based power) is a bit unfair. You’d need to compare him to someone like Nikila or Chiara.

Also, if Lloyd has control over multiple elements, probably the only one that would go toe to toe with him is a Makuta or a Kaita/Nui.

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If Lloyd’s power is energy then obviously he equals Voriki :stuck_out_tongue: seriously I have no idea tho.
Tahu would burn Kai to a crisp, he has his Hau for shielding so could hold out longer if they did a burn off.
Out of curiosity do Bohrok and other entities count in this comparison?

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Based on what I remember of ninjago, I feel like the Toa would wipe the floor with them, not necessarily just on elemental power but having additional mask powers, plus armor and more kick tail (or boulder) weapons :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hm…which one of the Toa Kaita? Or both?

I’m not necessarily wondering who would win in a fight; I’m wondering whose elemental power is more powerful. But if we’re talking about additional abilities, then the ninja would be able to match the Toa. Why? Because the Toa have Kanohi masks, and ninja have Spinjitzu.

I was only thinking of the Toa. But sure, we could count the Bohrok. Tahnok-Kal would be a good counterpart to Jay.

The ninja also have stealth, and Spinjitzu, and agility that (most) Toa don’t have.

One thing I forgot to mention in my opening post is that Lewa, Matau, and Kongu all have a Ninjago counterpart: Morro. Morro is the master of Wind, which is essentially Air. But if we’re really counting additional powers beyond elemental powers, then Morro’s advantage would be the fact that he’s a ghost and can possess/transform most anything.

I’m pretty sure the Toa are inherently stronger and more durable than a human, plus they have their Kanohi for extra powers, so if you match any ninja with a Toa of his/her respective element, the only one who stands a chance is Cole because he gets the full benefits of both Earth and Stone; and even then, that might not be an advantage because either A. the two elements are too similar for it to matter, or B. Earth, being softer, isn’t as deadly as Stone, so having both isn’t very useful.

Lloyd’s the only problem child here because Ninjago sucks to the point where we don’t even get to learn what his power does. Is it light? Plasma? Energy doesn’t tell us anything; is it kinetic energy, electrical energy, heat? So we can’t be sure who to match him up against.

The Inika are also a terrible matchup for Jay because they’re not Toa of Lightning. We had a couple of those in canon; Chiara makes more sense. Most powers in Ninjago have a respective Bionicle element or power, but not all have Toa to correlate wit them. Speed, for example (what a dumb idea for an element, my god) correlates to the Kakama, not an element; and Ninjago’s “poison” element could be matched against a Lehvak, but not any Toa.

With that in mind, here, I think, are the most logical matchups:

  • Kai - any Toa of Fire
  • Zane - any Toa of Ice
  • Cole - any Toa of Earth or Stone
  • Jay - any Toa of Lightning
  • Nya - any toa of Water
  • Lloyd - idk, the Golden-Skinned being?
  • Karlof - any Toa of Iron
  • Paleman - any Toa of Light (there is literally only one atm so it’ll be Takanuva)
  • Griffin - anyone with a Kakama
  • Ash - look this guy is screwed, this is a stupid element, what the hell why
  • Neuro - any Toa of Psionics
  • Gravis - any Toa of Gravity
  • Bolobo - any Toa of Plantlife
  • Jacob - any Toa of Sonics
  • Tox - a Lehrak?
  • Shade - any Toa of Shadow (there are none, so maybe Miserix, but god that’s so skewed)
  • Chamille - Krahka, maybe?
  • Amber - Mimic?
  • Morro - any Toa of Air
  • Time - anyone who can use the Vahi, I guess

I guess this thread taught me just how stupid Ninjago’s magic system is compared to Bionicle’s. And Bionicle’s already sucks.

I was really only thinking of the main elements. But yeah, those work.

Really, it doesn’t seem much dumber than magnetism or mind-reading.

I always wondered why they didn’t just make Lloyd the ninja of Air, because thanks to Bionicle, I’ve come to associate green with air, and air wasn’t among the “main elements” from 2011. I can see why they wanted to give him a more powerful elemental power, but did they really have to be so vague about it?

Again: the ninja have Spinjitzu, something that the Toa don’t. And they’re probably more agile, too.

Takanuva is definitely the winner here-for me, at least. I’ve always been prejudiced against Paleman. Being the master of light makes him invisible? That’s stupid.

So to be clear, this isn’t a head to head fight, and we’re strictly comparing their elemental power right? So no kanohi, and no spinjitsu. I say the toa win. They have Nova blasts.

But if it was a head on fight I still think toa win. They have full body armor, they’re taller, they have kanohi, the list goes on. I know the Ninja have spinjitsu but that ability doesn’t seem very good to me. We’ve seen Wu get hit out of it before so it’s pretty flawed. An important question I have for the Ninja is can they absorb their element? We know most toa can and that would be a huge asset in a fight.

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And ninja have True Potential. Let’s break that down, shall we?

Jay-all he really did was float off the ground and stop a speeding roller coaster. Doesn’t seem that powerful.

Cole-super strength. Meh.

Zane-fought off a swarm of tree monsters. Now THAT’s a sign of extreme power.

Kai-able to survive an erupting volcano. Do I need to elaborate further?

In that case, I’d say it’s 50-50. But the Toa’s Nova Blasts…in the last 2007 comic, it was pretty heavily implied that by “going nova,” Jaller was committing suicide. That’s a pretty big drawback.

I don’t know if they ever demonstrated that ability. But we know that ninja can be drained of their elemental power…that is, until they just kind of decide they still have it, like Kai did in Season 11.

COle, usE Your lAva arMS

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I wouldn’t say it’s 50-50 unless you’re referring to effectiveness of true potentials. I think Nova blasts are quite a bit stronger. Jaller while potentially commiting suicide was going to take down hundreds or thousands of living things with him. And Gali pulled one off without suicide so maybe it’s element specific or something. The point was though that Nova blasts were a much more amazing display of power than a true potential. Kai becoming a fireball and flying out of a volcano seems far less impressive then engulfing a very large area underwater in flames.

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Psionics is a rather dumb element, but magnetism kinda makes sense, since electromagnetic fields are a nigh-omnipresence even on a planetary scale. The problem is that it’s a rather limited power and should be lumped with Lightning; but it’s not really a stupid power per se.

Speed is just a measurement of how fast an object travels in a given timeframe. That’s not a thing, it’s not a force, it’s just a quantity; and a vague one at that, since it doesn’t account for direction, unlike velocity.

How useful is that, really? They get a tornado of their respective element around them, and…what else?

Based on what? The Toa clearly have superhuman agility and speed; look at all the crazy crap they do in the movies. Gali just casually jumps up to the top of a castle wall. If the ninja can top that, then I’d be impressed.

According to the wiki, “The user [of elemental light] can create, shape, generate, and manipulate visible light, such as when the Staff of Elements stole Skylor and Lloyd’s Elemental Powers, the Staff shot a beam of light to weaken them before stealing their powers. This power can also be channeled in the form of blasts, orbs, and bolts of light energy and used for illumination purposes.” So Paleman was just using one of the powers Light grants him; it’s just that he…doesn’t. Maybe he’s a chump and doesn’t know how?

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I could see a Toa using their elemental power to disable the tornado’s effect or bend it somewhat so it hurts them.

Because kids know what the difference between speed and velocity is.

Both magnetism and psionics make sense to me; magnetism is a fundamental force (and the Makuta’s achilles heel at that); although it shares some overlap with electricity and iron; and psionics (dumb name) accounts for telepathy and telekinesis and other such powers; though it doesn’t have the shock and awe of other elements.

“Run very fast” does seem like an oddly specific power; but a useful one, thus the Kakama. If we wanted to expand it; I think it would be a time-based power; based solely on the first thing that came to mind for speed (Over the Hedge); where the squirrel’s super speed is seen as him moving freely through a slowed down world.

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It could be that the real element is Griffin Turner’s velocity, and they’re just calling it “speed” just for the heck of it.

That tornado probably amplifies their element to a certain extent. And if they’re using Airjitzu, then that lets them fly-something that a Toa could only do if he wore the Mask of Flight.

They’re ninja. Why do I have to explain?

I rest my case of Paleman being lame.

That doesn’t make it a logical element. The very notion of an “element” in antiquity, which all elemental magic systems draw on, is the idea that the universe can be broken down into a handful of types of stuff. The Greeks thought there were 5 elements: fire, water, earth, air, and aether. Modern fantasy often breaks it down into yet more elements, but the idea remains the same (if done right): each element is a fundamental component of the universe.

Thus is the problem of Psionics: thought is not a component of the universe. It’s not stuff that can be interacted with, and without shoehorning in telekinesis, it isn’t even a useful power in combat; at least not as much so as something like Air.

Sure, hence characters like The Flash. The problem comes from making it an element for the reasons listed above. It makes more sense to have a “Kinesis” element comprised of mechanical energy; this allows you to make yourself faster, plus it comes with a host of other applications.

Doesn’t really make it a much better element. Now the quantity is useful for physical calculations, whoop-dee-doo.

Sounds like you’re just spitballing regarding amplification of power. And while the ninja may benefit from having the High Ground,™ the Toa might be able to just snipe them with their own powers; and can the ninja really keep fighting from the air for a long time AND win the fight while doing so?

Wearing pajamas doesn’t make you Captain America. Point to examples from Ninjago canon where the ninja outdo the most acrobatic thing any Toa does ever.

While we’re here, let’s also prove that the Toa can take a greater physical beating than the ninja: in LoMN, during the “cross the sea of Protodermis” scene, the Toa (especially Onewa) take a sustained beating from the “sea” that would shatter any human’s entire skeleton, and they get up seemingly only a little worse for wear.

Won’t argue with that.

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Depends on what kind of powers the Toa are using; my main point with Airjitzu is, the ninja might be able to fly up, then come down in a kind of Hulk-smash move on the Toa.

Also, Spinjitzu and Airjitzu are both essentially tornadoes. Unless the Toa use their elemental powers, the magical tornadoes wouldn’t be tangible.

The ninja clearly are NOT wearing pajamas. :stuck_out_tongue:

But seriously. What I’m saying is, ninja are quick, nimble, stealthy, and light on their feet. Stronger than Toa? Nope. But if it was a contest where they have to race through the temple from the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark-without using any powers-I’d be putting my money on the ninja.

The Toa are also wearing armor, though I do agree. Since Nya’s the ninja of Water, there’s a slim chance she could make it out alive, but the rest? Not so much. That is, unless Zane freezes the water into ice or something.

But that implies that they haven’t forgotten how to do airjitzu

I mean, maybe, but that one maneuver doesn’t sound like a game-changer.

But…they can use their elemental powers. That’s part of being a Toa.

But why? I just established the the Toa are capable of feats of agility that put the most nimble humans to shame. Even the Hollywood ninja can’t jump from the base of Ta-Koro’s castle to the top of its wall faster than you can say “the Toa of Water approaches!”

Pretty sure that’s just part of their body. Yes, that does mean every character in Bionicle is technically naked. No, I don’t know what to do with this information.

Oh, I was referring to the scene at the Coliseum.

Not my point. I was talking about the physical trauma they can withstand without major injury.

They haven’t forgotten; it came back in Season 12. The writers said they toned down the Airjitzu because they felt that the ninja were overpowered.

Because it’s not just physical capabilities; it’s also reflexes and the type of training they receive. The Toa are shown to have incredible reflexes, as do the ninja, so that’s a tie. But the Toa seem to be trained to use their powers mostly for combat. The ninja have had some of that training, but based on the pilot season, Sensei Wu’s training makes use of an obstacle course.

Yikes.

That scene involved solid protodermis, yes? If so, then yeah, it would be impossible for the ninja to survive. Except for Cole at his true potential.

This is a fight. Non-combat training probably won’t be a factor. And how do you know the Toa wouldn’t do just as well on that same obstacle course? On top of that, the ninja are still human. They do some stuff humans can’t do in real life, like scaling buildings like Spider-Man, but IIRC they never come close to what a Toa can do.