It came back in a power up, not as an actual moveset the Ninja use.
Perhaps psionics is related to whatever stuff the Toaâs minds are made of? Silicon, perhaps, if we liken them to our own computers, or grey/white matter, if we liken them to ourselves? That could explain most of the psychic powers I can think of. [quote=âthewimpykid, post:19, topic:51611â]
Yes, that does mean every character in Bionicle is technically naked
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Well there go most attempts at âhuman BIONICLEâ's credibility.
I feel that this argument needs to be a bit more organized. I think we need to pick one Ninja and one toa and compare them two together rather than comparing all Ninja to all toa.
[quote=âHawkflight, post:22, topic:51611â]
Perhaps psionics is related to whatever stuff the Toaâs minds are made of? Silicon, perhaps, if we liken them to our own computers, or grey/white matter, if we liken them to ourselves? That could explain most of the psychic powers I can think of.[/quote]
Silicon would probably fall under either Iron, Earth, or Stone. It also wouldnât explain how Toa of Psionics can use their powers. You can manipulate the literal matter with that power, but how would you be able to read minds andâthis being the dumbest part of this elementâjust move any objects you want with your mind?
And even then, thatâs not really how the element is defined. Itâs defined as just controlling minds, not brains/processors. How does this imbue telekinesis and âmental blasts of energy?â What the hell does that last one even mean? God, the very notion of âenergyâ has been so abused in fantasy and I hate it.
EDIT: Furthermore, most other elements are something Toa can theoretically create. Tahu can create fire; Chiara can create electricity; even Krakua can create soundwaves. Toa of Psionics arenât cited as being able to create minds, just interact with other beingsâ thoughts and perceptions. This, fundamentally, makes it either an outlier or just not the same kind of power.
and controlling a mind, or a soul or spirit, separately from a brain argues the existence of psionics or a similar âmentalâ element. Although I donât think telekinesis would count under this argument - it starts in your mind but youâre making something happen in the physical realm. Unless we want to argue that psionics is pretty much the Force.
As for âmental blasts of energyâ, this TV Tropes article was the first thing that came to mind. It includes a handful of BIONICLE specific examples as well.
Saying that Toa of Psionics should create minds reads the same as saying Toa of Psionics should create ears, or Toa of Light should create eyes. Which they canât, but directly affect those organs; the effects of a Psionics user affect the mind in the same way.
Greg coulda worked around these by saying that thereâs some kinda spiritual medium in the Bionicle universe by which consciousness exists/manifests, and thatâs what Toa of Psionics control. It woulda been rather convoluted, but it also would have brought it more in-line with the rest of the elements. He, however, is a terrible worldbuilder, and so we got no such justification for this element and how it works.
This is pretty much my main gripe with the element. Come to think of it, Iâm pretty sure the only reason itâs a thing is just because Greg wanted Jedi Toa.
Then I concede my point about it not being too useful in a fight. A skilled user of this element could make targets believe in truly elaborate illusions and make them think theyâre sustaining injuries they havenât sustainedâsomething which could potentially make them think theyâre dying and cause their brain to prematurely shut down, making them die for real. 'Course, unless youâre a nutter like Tuyet, youâre not gonna break the Toa Code like that, but my point stands.
Thatâs not at all the same. Eyes and ears are the means by which an animal perceives light and sound, not actual facets of light and sound. Minds are literally the entire thing Psionics revolves around; controlling what goes on in them and what they perceive is the whole point of the element.
That was my original ideaâŚbefore we started to get kinda off topic.
I really disagree with this, but arguing about it would (again) get off topic.
Look, Toa of Psionics arenât even that common in the storyline, so Iâm willing to just abide by it. If you donât like it, fine, but Iâm not gonna waste my afternoon trying to convince you.
Back to what I quoted before, well, I matched up the ninja with Bionicle counterparts in my opening post. In terms of power levels, I can only see a few categories. And from this discussion, I can see some answers.
Elemental Powers-Iâm still not sure who wins. Again; thereâs a chance that it could vary from matchup to matchup. But thatâs kind of what Iâm trying to figure out.
Physical Capabilities-in terms of agility and speed, the ninja could very well match the Toa. But since the Toa have superior strength and endurance, I think they win this round.
Additional Abilities: Spinjitzu vs. Kanohi masks. With the wide variety of Kanohi mask powers, surely the Toa would win.
Though the first round is still undetermined, the Toa win the other two rounds. Iâd still like to know exact numbers of whose elemental power exceeds the other, but since the Toa win 2/3, then that makes them the superior warriors.
Like I said earlier due to Nova blasts I think toa win this as well.
I would be interested in seeing how one toa vs one Ninja would go.
that would have worked in the first three years of BIONICLE, but after Doing in the Wizard and adding in more tech elements, itâs hard to look at the world outside a pseudo-scientific perspective.
What is the point of light, but for us to see it? What is the point of sound, but for us to hear it?
Philosophy notwithstanding, Psionics could be another type of wave, just like light (sometimes) and sound, that transmits information directly to some sixth sense thatâs connected to brain activity.
Anyway, I havenât watched the newer seasons of Ninjago but Iâm fairly certain that, unless the Ninja have more abilities than just making their element appear around them plus an extra ability from their true potential:tm:, the Toa win by a landslide.
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For real though, the two groups would come to understand that they have a lot in common and eventually team up against the real villains.
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LOL true. But that gives me another idea: what about ninja vs. Makuta/Rahkshi/Barraki/Piraka/etc? Or Toa vs. Overlord/Lord Garmadon/Nindroids/Anacondrai cultists, Nadakhan/Serpentine/Skullkin/Blizzard Samurai/what have you? That would be the ultimate matchup.
Absolutely nothing that happens in Bionicle obeys the laws of physics, or even comes close to doing so. There are multiple magic systems in place; adding another wouldnât cause a lot of problems.
Heat, deadly radiation, radio/microwavesâŚthe most dangerous light is really the kind we canât see. And that has no bearing on my point; we can perceive light or we can not, but itâs still there.
Itâs a very real vibration in the air. There is no âpointâ to anything that exists; the universe does not exist for us to perceive it. What is the point of fire except to burn us, water except to drown and sustain us, rocks but for us to stub our toes on? Also, what were we arguing about, again?
That is, to a tee, what I proposed earlier: some kind of extra magical substance/form of energy by which consciousness exists and can be altered.
If American politics have taught me one thing, itâs that that ainât happeninâ, brotha.
Bionicleâs power scaling is too nonsensical for us to be sure how that would work out. In the early years, when there was just one Makuta, the species was played up as insanely OP; Vakama only beat one by tricking him and then imprisoning him in Friendshiponium. In '08, theyâre only on par with one Toa, give or take. Same with the Piraka, except that happened in literally one yearâs time.
This is why I donât think very highly of Greg as a writer.
The most dangerous light is the really bright light, the kind that blinds us.
Oh, please. First off, the Bionicle and Ninjago universes are NOT affiliated with American politics. And isnât the whole point of crossovers for our favorite characters to team up?
Vakama didnât beat Makuta Teridax with just his own powers; he and his five teammates combined their powers, much like the Tornado of Creation. And in 2001, the Makuta species was probably just talked about like that because the Matoran didnât know everything about him, and therefore feared him because for all they knew, he could wipe them out with a wave of the hand.
And as for the Piraka, the Toa Inika were quite different from the Toa Nuva. The Toa Nuva were just Toa of their respective elements, while the Toa Inika had their own powers intertwined with lightning.
And not the kind that gives us tumors?
I donât think you understand my point. If there are 2 parties, they WILL fail to find common ground at every possible opportunity. Do you live in the Colonies? Because if you do, you should know about this by now.
I didnât say he did. Literally the entire point of mentioning that fight is the fact that he couldnât fight Terry head-on and only sealed him with help.
âŚand he nearly wiped the floor with a full team of 6 Toa. The original story direction would have basically made him a cosmic entity of Lovecraftian proportions; he was going to be godlike in power. This was just retconned as the story went on.
Oh yeah, that makes SUCH a big differenceâŚhow? They didnât get full control over Lightning as an element, their normal attacks just had added âshock value.â And Matoro, in particular, didnât really have much use for this, as ice is a poor conductor.
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I honestly did not know that light could give us tumors. Wow.
I live in California. And I have never said that theyâd always be 100% on the same side. Both in fiction and in real life, nobody will ever agree on every little thing. I get your point, but MY point is that if both the Toa and the ninja recognized who the real bad guys were, they would put aside their differences to work together to stop the bad guys.
Thatâs Bionicle storytelling for you, mate. Sorry if you donât like it, but itâs the way it is.
Exactly. They had something that the Toa Nuva did not. I was always under the impression that their âlaserâ weapons could shoot lightning.
It would be a whole different story with Hahli, since sheâs the Toa of Water. But the rest? Not so much.
Gamma rays are light. Radiationâthe kind that kills youâthatâs light. The Sun is a deadly laser.
It may be lousy storytelling, but it also seriously throws a wrench in any attempt to construct a good death battle because we canât know exactly WHAT level a Makuta would be on.
Canât think of a much better explanation for what those lasers were in the comics. Still, this is one additional attack they have in their repertoire. Against beings who could own the Toa Nuva, this alone, plus the enhancements to their native elements, doesnât really sound like enough of a determining factor for its usage in canon to make sense.
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I donât see why organic not-robots or tornado ninjas would care about American politics. Besides, who would be the Republicans, and who would be the Democrats?
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Frankly, Iâm rather sad I didnât think to create a Makuta vs. Lord Garmadon matchup, or any other bad guy vs. bad guy matchups. But of course, Makuta Teridax would WASTE Garmadon.
In fact, hereâs some more matchups that could be interesting.
Lhikan vs. Sensei Wu
Krekka and Nidhiki vs. Kruncha and Nuckal
Keetongu vs. Master Chen
Axonn vs. Dareth
Brutaka vs. Morro
Gadunka vs. Cryptor
Roodaka vs. Harumi
Vezon vs. Skylor
Tuma vs. Akita
Stronius vs. Kozu
Ackar vs. Okino
Gresh vs. Captain Soto
Kiina vs. Ronin
Oh, I could go on and onâŚ
Pretty sure we were talking about what the Toa create - Fire Toa create fire, Sonics Toa create sound, Psionics Toa create âmental energyâ which operates on its own plane. You said Psionics Toa should be able to create their own mind, while I said they should have powers that affect the mind, like Toa of Light have powers that affect our eyes.
Which has nothing to do with the original topic at hand.
Axon versus Dareth? Shouldnât you pair him up with someone more his speed? Like Dareth vs. good guy? I like Dareth, but heâs a dead man.
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