Most of these matchups look very one-sided.
I can feel the mods stare on this reply
1 Like
WARNING: Text Wall Incoming
OK, so after skimming through the topic here are my thoughts.
(DISCLAIMER - Iām way, way more familiar with Bionicle so if I get any of the Ninjago characterās limitations or powers wrong please correct me.)
So first off, itās probably worth noting that Bionicle is much more consistent in what its characters are capable of. The ninjaās powers have only gotten more vague as they have grown more powerful (the tournament of elements really exemplified this issue). But as much as I could rant about Ninjagoās writing - the point is to compare power levels here, so I will try and get as much of a grip on it as possible.
For these reasons I will be doing the matchups based on Ninjagoās characters, finding a corresponding Bionicle character to compare. Many Bionicle characters have very similar powers anyway.
Round 1 - Original Four Ninja vs Toa
- Kai Vs Fire Toa (Tahu)
- Jay Vs Lightning Toa (Nikila/Chiara)
- Zane Vs Ice Toa (Kopaka)
- Cole Vs Earth Toa (Onua)
Disclaimer: I donāt own any of the images Iām using here. Theyāre property of Lego. 
Now, as far as direct control over elemental powers go, I would think Toa have the upper hand. We have seen the ninja create and control their element, while the Toa also have the power to absorb it - although the ninja might be able to do that too.
From what Iām aware, the Ninja donāt have limited āreservesā of their power (even though both were like the Toa, but conversely, the Toa demonstrate way more control over their element - Kai sets stuff on fire, but I donāt see him sustaining streams of flame like Tahu did in, say MNOG. The same holds true for the others.
The Ninja have spinjitzu (and the related offshoots that clearly exist to sell the latest spinning tops) - but look at the scale of cyclones that Lewa is creating and itās no contest.
True Potential / Nova Blast are good examples of the maximum power of each. Compare Zane and Kopaka - Zane was able to freeze theā¦ tree-monsterthings (treehorns? I forget the name) with beams of ice - but I could see Kopaka doing the same with a mere fraction of his power. Weāve only seen one Nova Blast in cannon - but it wiped out an entire island. None of the Ninja would have been able to do that.
Iām not counting the obvious additional physical strength of the characters - in a hand-on-hand fight the Toa have an obvious advantage anyway - but this is a comparison of Power Levels, not a āwho would win?ā scenario.
The only exception is Cole, who you could argue encompasses stone as well - but even then, heās not going to ābring down the ceiling on us, too!ā the way Onua did, in my mind.
Itās probably also worth a mention that Nya vs Gali would fall under this, too - and again, Nya isnāt bringing down an island anytime soon.
Round 2 - Sensei Wu and Garmadon vsā¦?
This oneās a bit weird. Do they ever state what Wuās power is, explicitly? I remember he used Creation powers a few times (even though Lloyd canāt?), but thereās no contest in Wu vs Artahka. Gold-Skinned being is similar, but even thatās obviously skewed.
Takanuva might be a a better comparison, but even then, heās probably going to come out on top.
If we look at the mentor role, we find the Turaga, who we never see fight (although they are stated to have weak elemental powers and I kind of imagine them fighting like Yoda, lol) I think Wu definitely has the edge - probably the most fair comparison is a Turaga Nui, who unfortunately doesnāt appear in anything.
Keetongu might actually be close - in Web of Shadows, heās even depicted as practically a monk - and in that case, itās a tough call.
Keetongu has healing properties (of some sort - I think Greg intended it to be an anti-venom, but the movie just had him sort of glow). His weapons are objectively going to crush Wuās staff, and heās also got the ability to absorb/redirect power through his rhotuka. But Wuās edge is hisā¦ goldnessā¦ spinjitzu, and his creation powers.
Then thereās Toa Ignika, whoās thematically very close to Wu. But heās on a whole different level.
So yeah.
Garmadon is interesting because his power is extremely vague. In the pilot season, he doesnāt really do anything other than sit in a chair and look evil. After that, heās grown more arms.
His power has been described as ādestructionā - so the obvious antithesis is Makuta - but again, thatās going to be over quick.
Others examples that come to mind are Sidorak, Roodaka, and maybe even The Shadowed One.
I can see Garmadon destroying Sidorak quite easily, actually. They both have armies (although the Visorak are going to trample the skeletons, to be fair.) Sidorak has an obedience Rhotuka thatās going to be way more effective than any mind-powers Garmadon may (or may not?) have, but Garmy has the raw energy to destroy anything Sidorak has.
Roodaka is probably more of a fair contest - again, Garmadon sits above her in pure shadowy power, even though Roodaka has at least enough limited shadow power to fire bolts of darkness. But she has that lethal mutation Rhotuka, too. Iād actually put Garmadon on top here, too, although itās closer.
Finally thereās TSO. Heās probably got the edge here - though heās got no plain āshadowā powers, his disintegration eyebeams are kind of a ādestructionā power, and (unless you happen to be Zaktan, which Garmadon isnāt) your essentially toast if he makes eye contact with you (sorry, Ancient). Heās also got a staff that creates crystalline protodermis, which is pretty powerful, and an Insanity-inducing rhotuka. Even thatās going to be enough - if you were to also add in (debatably) the viruses he pillaged from Xia, and heās walking away from this on top.
The most fair match for Garmadon I can think of is a Toa of Shadow, based on how the Shadow Takanuva fought in Reign of Shadows (was it in Reign of Shadows? Whichever serial they went against Mazeka and alt Terridax). They seem on similar power levels, with maybe a slight edge to Garmadon, but itās very close. But thatās a bit sad considering what a force of evil heās supposed to be, really.
Round 3 - Serpentine vs Rahkshi
- Fangpyre vs Poison
- Hypnobrai vs Anger/Fear
- Constrictai vs Elasticity
- Venomari vs Illusion
- Anacondrai vs Darkness/Camouflage
This is actually a more fair matchup than you might think. Thereās enough Rahkshi powers to (with maybe the exception of the Hypnobrai) make more than a fair match up for each of these. Iāll be comparing a single, non-specific serpentine against a Rahkshi. Against, physical disparities aside, the Rahkshi staffs and the Serpentine weapons wonāt factor into this. Just your snake power vs Rahkshi power.
The Fangpyre probably could go toe-to-toe with top tier Rahkshi of Poison. Poison is nasty, and as we saw in Mask of Light, it can have slight mental effects as well as cause a physical barrier (like coating the ground) that the Fangpyre canāt. But their ability to assimilate stuff is effective, and considering that they could literally poison a helicopter into a flying snake (?!?!), theyād be at no disadvantage in the Bionicle universe, either.
Only point of note is that, though they could almost instantaneously transmute inanimate objects, it took Jay pretty much a whole episode (I think?) to start becoming a snake. But still, this one is pretty fair, and Iād almost favour the snake here.
Hypnobrai donāt have a good comparison - fear and anger are the closest powers. But again, the snakes probably have an edge here - they have complete control over their victims (Cole fought with all his ninja skill when he was hypnotized) while something like anger just creates unpredictability. Hypnobrai can also stun someone, although I think the Turahkās ability to freeze with fear is more significant.
The Rahkshi edge here, of course, is that they can almost effortlessly create these effects. The mere kraata are described as affecting anyone in the vicinity, and they can create concentrated bursts of this energy with their staffs. The Hypnobrai need to maintain a period of sustained eye contact. So actually this oneās pretty close.
Constrictai donāt fair so well. Their power is, well, crushing, and frankly other than the general who has the long snake tail this is really kind of wasted on them. The elasticity Rahkshi are described as practically invulnerable, able to stretch huge distances in the blink of an eye. Theyāve got this.
Venomari vs Illusion is pretty close too, but Iād side with the Rahkshi. The Venomari edge here is that the target usually visualizes their fears - which, without a Fear or Mind Reading rahkshi also present, the Illusion rahkshi would never know - but the venomari have to actually spit their venom on their target for it to take effect. Illusion rahkshi can sustain multiple, powerful illusions of their choice at will, that are visible to the targets of their choosing (we know that last bit because of how the fight with Mutran plays out when heās using this power).
Anacondrai vs Darkness might seem like an odd pairing - but one of the key traits of Darkness rahkshi is that they become invisible in low-light conditions, and are basically capable of creating those conditions at will. But in both this case and camouflage, itās a reallly equal paring - the ability to turn invisible isnāt really more or less powerful in one camp.
On the whole, these are probably the most fair parings so far.
Round 4 - Elemental Masters vs Toa (mostly)
- Karlof vs Toa of Iron/Devastator
- Paleman vs Jerbraz
- Griffin vs Kanohi Kakama
- Ash vsā¦ ash bear? Lol
- Neuro vs Toa of Psionics (Varian)
- Gravis vs Toa of Gravity
- Bolobo vs Toa of the Green
- Jacob vs Toa of Sonics (Krakua)
- Tox vs Rahkshi of Poison (again)
- Shade vs Toa of Shadow (evil Takanuva)
- Chamille vs Tridax
- Amber vs a bunch
- Morro vs Toa of Air (Lewa)
So letās get the easy ones out of the way. Gravis, Bolobo, Jacob, and Shade are all at the same disadvantages that the original ninja + Nya were. So the Toa all win here.
Karlof is a bit more interesting, because he doesnāt really ācontrolā iron like a Toa of Iron would. He just sort of transmutes himself into iron. In a fight, he would literally get crushed. The only character with obviously comparable powers is Devastator (and that one vahki combiner), although he turns into sand, which is pretty comparable because heās got much more maneuverability over Karlof with the extra disadvantage of being elementally susceptible (Nidhiki beat him by dumping a bucket of water on him, but then again, Ninjago had an entire wave of villains who could be beaten the same way. why did the ninja not just use water pistolsā¦). But in any actual fight Devastator is going to walk all over Karloff, obviously.
Actually, a Pakari user would be pretty comparable to Karlofās power - so thatās probably a fair match as each have their benefits and detriments.
Paleman vs Jerbraz, because Takanuva would destroy him. And frankly, thereās no power level dispute here, because like with the anacondrai, invisible is invisible.
(But obviously in a fight Jerbraz wins this one)
Griffin vs Kakama is objectively fair because we donāt have a speed quantifier for either and Griffinās control of the āelement of speedā seems to literally be just fast running, as opposed to actually speeding/slowing stuff.
Ash has no comparison. Ash is toast.
Neuro vs Toa of Psionics is interesting because Psionics is very different from the other Bionicle elements. Still, if you look at what Varian can do in No One Gets Left Behind, or what Orde does in The Yesterday Quest, I get the feeling theyāve got more power than Neuro does.
Toxās only benefit is that she can spray stuff at a range. But Lehrakās poison seems way more potent from what little we have actually seen of both. Itās kind of hard to compare. (Also, is it just me, or does Tox look exactly like one of the Ultra Agents villains?)
Chamille vs Tridax because both are shapeshifters. Iām not comparing Krahka because she duplicates powers, rather than just becomes whatever form she wants. And shapeshifting is shapeshifting - only thing to note is that Tridax has a more deadly repertoire of forms.
Amber is weird. Power absorbing characters in Bionicle include:
- Krahka, who is way way more powerful (can copy just by sight and merge multiple forms, + shapeshifting)
- Mimic, who is weaker (also copying rather than absorbing and can only duplicate physical feats. I think it would be a fair fight because heās a biomechanical swordsman, but his powers in isolation are less effective)
- Keetongu (who can absorb powers used against him and redirect them). Keetongu is probably better here.
Morro vs Lewa is pretty elementary (lol pun), except heās a ghost. But as discussed above, ghosts in ninjago are really weak. Krika is the closest thing to a Bionicle ghost, but heās also a Makuta, soā¦
Round 5 - Lloyd vs Everything
So lloyds powers are just a mess. He controls green energy, and the four main elements (which made sense when those were the only four, but now itās just so arbitrary), and he also has the power to turn gold and useā¦ gold power.
So the obvious comparison isā¦ the Toa Inikaā¦ in Hero Mode?
(Hero mode theme plays)
But seriously, even though the player in that game is, jokes aside, the closest thing to Lloyd I can think of, letās look at cannon stuff:
- Kaita - Kaita has the strength of three individuals and elements - Lloyd is just one guy, but with four elements + bunch of other powers. So heās more powerful.
- Maybe Tuyet? Theyāre only vaguely comparable, but this could be a genuinely cool fight to see, actually - I wouldnāt know who to bank on.
- Krahka is also a pretty fair match.
- Gold Skinned Being is comparable, but sorry Lloyd, your toast.
- Energized Protodermis Entity - this is actually probably the closest thing in cannon to Lloyd, weirdly enough. Heās still toast.
But the best match is probably ātoaā Mata Nui. The Ignika gives me the feeling Mata-Nui has the edge here, especially if you consider that, if the screen treatment from the fifth movie was anything to go off, he had innate gravity powers too. But itās pretty close.
tl;dr: Both universes have arbitrary power systems, but Bionicleās is at least consistent whereas Ninjagoās is just a mess. If weāre talking about power levels (which we are, even though itās kind of a pointless discussion to have) - then Bionicle is, generally speaking, playing on a much higher tier than Ninjago.
Bonus Round - Dareth vs Vezon
Iāll let you guys make your minds up on this one.
9 Likes
Youāre correct. They are treehorns.
At his true potential, he probably could.[quote=āToa-of-Snow, post:42, topic:51611ā]
Ash has no comparison. Ash is toast.
[/quote]
Have I mentioned that I hate Ash? An Elemental Master of SMOKE? Please.
It is not just you. She and Paleman are indeed models of Ultra Agents villains that they plopped in Ninjago.
I feel like Iāve mentioned this before, but Ninjago ghosts have the ability to possess objects and take control of them. Morro could probably take control of some larger, stronger body (though that would be cheating).
And here you go:
Yeah, I think we can all agree on this.
Iād say Vezon.
1 Like
But Onua wasnāt at his full potential. He was Nuva, sure, but that was a fraction of his complete power.
So heās Antidermis then? Because thatās definitely not a match that will end well for him. 
2 Likes
If his opponent happens to have control over Iron or Magnetism, sure.
1 Like
Wu might have the upper hand, actually. He has creation Spinjitsu to his name, so he could, in theory, just make a gun and shoot Lhikan, or something OP like that.
The Skullkin are kinda pathetic in general, and the DHs prove more than a match for any one Toa at different points in the '04 story. Those skelly boys are gonna need a second grave.
Come on now, thatās just not fair. Dareth is the most powerful being in the universe.
If I understand Skylorās power correctly, she can copy other elemental powers. However, Vezon has no elemental power to copy, and canāt even use it on his own because heās a Skakdi. Letās be fair and assume this is post-Ignition Vezon. No Ignika, no Spear of Fusion, just him and his dagger. He can probably overpower her by force, though he has no formal combat training, so Skylor may, in theory, just wage a war of attrition.
Aight, now I get it. Hereās the problem with that reasoning: Light exists outside of our eyes. Itās an electromagnetic wave thatās there whether we perceive it or not. A Toa of Light controls actual light, allowing him to shoot lasers and make visual illusions. His element doesnāt just act on the victimās mind; it affects the real, physical universe.
Psionics, presumably, deals with consciousness first and foremost. Every other element entails the ability to control and create the thing that element correlates to, which is some real substance or phenomenon. Toa of matter-based elements can all make that matter on the spot; Toa of energy-based ones can do the same. Psionics should, in theory, operate on the same rules if it really makes sense as an element: if minds are counted as āenergy,ā and beings with this elemental power can control minds, then surely they can create them as well. If they cannot, does it really make sense to consider it an elemental power?
I would argue that, in this context, we should absolutely be clear on what any elemental power truly does and entails. If we want Orde to fight, uhā¦whoever the Mind ninja was, I forgetā¦we need to lay some ground rules for what is and isnāt possible. 'Course, if nobody cares about that fight, this particular topic could go to the elements thread.
Now this is a fair fight. Truly, a great anime battle for the ages, which generations will speak of for eons to come.
But are their powers at all similar? I wouldnāt say they are.
Pretty sure everyone can spank Sidorak without even trying. I could kill him, and Iām out of shape as ā ā ā ā .
1 Like
I was more talking about them from a thematic perspective, because I wouldnāt really say anyone has similar powers to Wu. Anyone in Bionicle with powers remotely alike to him is also magnitudes of strength ahead, to the point where itās not worth discussing (like Artahka).
Garmadon vs Karzahni, on the other hand, could be interestingā¦ but again, weāre not at all talking about like powers.
1 Like
You had me on the floor laughing here. 
Iām rooting for Skylor here, TBH.
His name was Neuro. And he wasnāt a ninja.
Whoās ā ā ā ā ?
Like powers or not, that would still be fun to watch.
But remember, Ninja never quit
1 Like
Then what the hell are we talking about? Both are the ādestructionā boys, so if anything, this does sound like a logical matchup, though Iām not sure what kinds of powers Karzahni actually has.
1 Like
Karzahniās powers are the Kanohi Olisi, Mask of Alternate Futures (the one that was basically a fake Olmak that backfired in his face half the time), and heās got flaming chains. He got a squid launcher, when he went underwater too.
Thatās pretty much it. Heās pretty strong, too. BS01 says he has āTelepathic Scanningā - I donāt know if thatās mind reading or just detecting minds.
Iām actually not sure how heād fair against Garmadon, tbh. He held his own against Teridax for a bit, but as soon as he got a decent blow, in Teridax got furious and just telepathically ripped his mind to shreds. And after that he was just rendered useless.
1 Like
Actually, I was wrong, Dareth is a highly skilled karate machine, as well as the greatest in the land. He is the master of all animal fighting styles. Those trophies he has? His name is on all of them. How many trophies do the Toa have?
2 Likes
None. I donāt think the Toa disks count.
I think this is meant to be Skylar vs. Vezok. Their powers are much more comparable.
2 Likes
I totally forgot Vezok could do that. God, those extra Piraka powers were soā¦well, extra.
1 Like
I always thought Skylarās counterpart was the Krakah. Both have access to a rediculous amount of power, but are easily overwhelmed by it.
1 Like
Psionics could operate on a very similar wavelength (no pun intended) to light and sound in this regard. A waveform, or particle, or whatever that has a handful of effects, but that we can perceive - only instead of light, which we perceive with our eyes, we perceive it with our mental activity. That waveform can be manipulated to create different effects on the target brain; just like our own speech can be manipulated by moving our own mouths. As a matter of fact, the psionic waveform could involve some trickery that doesnāt actually fire off specific neurons to achieve the desired effect - we can send a series of messages via soundwave for the brain to reconstruct and assign meaning to.
The brain/core processor of a Toa, therefore, is a sensor for psionic activity among other things, just like their ears/audio receptors are sensors for sonics and eyes/optical receptors for light/shadow.
Now that I think about it, creating an intelligent mind has been done before by the MU inhabitants. Namely, the Makuta, who created a number of intelligent Rahi (the Tahtorak, for example.) The makuta also happen to have the psionics-based power of Mind Reading, and some extent of Telepathy. Itās possible that the Ce-Toa could do the same, but elected that it was an immoral use of their powers.
Actually, new suggestion - the entire main cast of Ninjago versus a single Makuta with all 42 Rahkshi powers, who would win?
2 Likes
With Lloyd as green ninja or golden? Golden would increase the likeliness immensely for them to win.
1 Like
Youāve sorta refined what I proposed before, but I can totally swallow this reasoning. I think this is the kinda concept to play around with in the elements thread, so if you wanna keep talking about this there, we might finally find a way to make this element not suck.
Now this is potentially a real fight. All that power might be too much for the ninja, but they might stand a chance as a team, especially with the Tornado of Creation.
ā¦why didnāt they use that all the time?
2 Likes
This would be fun to watch. I think the makutas best chance is the element of surprise they would get. And one interesting factor is if they broke the makutas armor the ninja would presume them dead. But maybe that makuta could possess Zane.
3 Likes