For real though, the two groups would come to understand that they have a lot in common and eventually team up against the real villains.
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LOL true. But that gives me another idea: what about ninja vs. Makuta/Rahkshi/Barraki/Piraka/etc? Or Toa vs. Overlord/Lord Garmadon/Nindroids/Anacondrai cultists, Nadakhan/Serpentine/Skullkin/Blizzard Samurai/what have you? That would be the ultimate matchup.
Absolutely nothing that happens in Bionicle obeys the laws of physics, or even comes close to doing so. There are multiple magic systems in place; adding another wouldn’t cause a lot of problems.
Heat, deadly radiation, radio/microwaves…the most dangerous light is really the kind we can’t see. And that has no bearing on my point; we can perceive light or we can not, but it’s still there.
It’s a very real vibration in the air. There is no “point” to anything that exists; the universe does not exist for us to perceive it. What is the point of fire except to burn us, water except to drown and sustain us, rocks but for us to stub our toes on? Also, what were we arguing about, again?
That is, to a tee, what I proposed earlier: some kind of extra magical substance/form of energy by which consciousness exists and can be altered.
If American politics have taught me one thing, it’s that that ain’t happenin’, brotha.
Bionicle’s power scaling is too nonsensical for us to be sure how that would work out. In the early years, when there was just one Makuta, the species was played up as insanely OP; Vakama only beat one by tricking him and then imprisoning him in Friendshiponium. In '08, they’re only on par with one Toa, give or take. Same with the Piraka, except that happened in literally one year’s time.
This is why I don’t think very highly of Greg as a writer.
The most dangerous light is the really bright light, the kind that blinds us.
Oh, please. First off, the Bionicle and Ninjago universes are NOT affiliated with American politics. And isn’t the whole point of crossovers for our favorite characters to team up?
Vakama didn’t beat Makuta Teridax with just his own powers; he and his five teammates combined their powers, much like the Tornado of Creation. And in 2001, the Makuta species was probably just talked about like that because the Matoran didn’t know everything about him, and therefore feared him because for all they knew, he could wipe them out with a wave of the hand.
And as for the Piraka, the Toa Inika were quite different from the Toa Nuva. The Toa Nuva were just Toa of their respective elements, while the Toa Inika had their own powers intertwined with lightning.
And not the kind that gives us tumors?
I don’t think you understand my point. If there are 2 parties, they WILL fail to find common ground at every possible opportunity. Do you live in the Colonies? Because if you do, you should know about this by now.
I didn’t say he did. Literally the entire point of mentioning that fight is the fact that he couldn’t fight Terry head-on and only sealed him with help.
…and he nearly wiped the floor with a full team of 6 Toa. The original story direction would have basically made him a cosmic entity of Lovecraftian proportions; he was going to be godlike in power. This was just retconned as the story went on.
Oh yeah, that makes SUCH a big difference…how? They didn’t get full control over Lightning as an element, their normal attacks just had added “shock value.” And Matoro, in particular, didn’t really have much use for this, as ice is a poor conductor.
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I honestly did not know that light could give us tumors. Wow.
I live in California. And I have never said that they’d always be 100% on the same side. Both in fiction and in real life, nobody will ever agree on every little thing. I get your point, but MY point is that if both the Toa and the ninja recognized who the real bad guys were, they would put aside their differences to work together to stop the bad guys.
That’s Bionicle storytelling for you, mate. Sorry if you don’t like it, but it’s the way it is.
Exactly. They had something that the Toa Nuva did not. I was always under the impression that their “laser” weapons could shoot lightning.
It would be a whole different story with Hahli, since she’s the Toa of Water. But the rest? Not so much.
Gamma rays are light. Radiation–the kind that kills you–that’s light. The Sun is a deadly laser.
It may be lousy storytelling, but it also seriously throws a wrench in any attempt to construct a good death battle because we can’t know exactly WHAT level a Makuta would be on.
Can’t think of a much better explanation for what those lasers were in the comics. Still, this is one additional attack they have in their repertoire. Against beings who could own the Toa Nuva, this alone, plus the enhancements to their native elements, doesn’t really sound like enough of a determining factor for its usage in canon to make sense.
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I don’t see why organic not-robots or tornado ninjas would care about American politics. Besides, who would be the Republicans, and who would be the Democrats?
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Frankly, I’m rather sad I didn’t think to create a Makuta vs. Lord Garmadon matchup, or any other bad guy vs. bad guy matchups. But of course, Makuta Teridax would WASTE Garmadon.
In fact, here’s some more matchups that could be interesting.
Lhikan vs. Sensei Wu
Krekka and Nidhiki vs. Kruncha and Nuckal
Keetongu vs. Master Chen
Axonn vs. Dareth
Brutaka vs. Morro
Gadunka vs. Cryptor
Roodaka vs. Harumi
Vezon vs. Skylor
Tuma vs. Akita
Stronius vs. Kozu
Ackar vs. Okino
Gresh vs. Captain Soto
Kiina vs. Ronin
Oh, I could go on and on…
Pretty sure we were talking about what the Toa create - Fire Toa create fire, Sonics Toa create sound, Psionics Toa create ‘mental energy’ which operates on its own plane. You said Psionics Toa should be able to create their own mind, while I said they should have powers that affect the mind, like Toa of Light have powers that affect our eyes.
Which has nothing to do with the original topic at hand.
Axon versus Dareth? Shouldn’t you pair him up with someone more his speed? Like Dareth vs. good guy? I like Dareth, but he’s a dead man.
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Most of these matchups look very one-sided.
I can feel the mods stare on this reply
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WARNING: Text Wall Incoming
OK, so after skimming through the topic here are my thoughts.
(DISCLAIMER - I’m way, way more familiar with Bionicle so if I get any of the Ninjago character’s limitations or powers wrong please correct me.)
So first off, it’s probably worth noting that Bionicle is much more consistent in what its characters are capable of. The ninja’s powers have only gotten more vague as they have grown more powerful (the tournament of elements really exemplified this issue). But as much as I could rant about Ninjago’s writing - the point is to compare power levels here, so I will try and get as much of a grip on it as possible.
For these reasons I will be doing the matchups based on Ninjago’s characters, finding a corresponding Bionicle character to compare. Many Bionicle characters have very similar powers anyway.
Round 1 - Original Four Ninja vs Toa
- Kai Vs Fire Toa (Tahu)
- Jay Vs Lightning Toa (Nikila/Chiara)
- Zane Vs Ice Toa (Kopaka)
- Cole Vs Earth Toa (Onua)
Disclaimer: I don’t own any of the images I’m using here. They’re property of Lego. 
Now, as far as direct control over elemental powers go, I would think Toa have the upper hand. We have seen the ninja create and control their element, while the Toa also have the power to absorb it - although the ninja might be able to do that too.
From what I’m aware, the Ninja don’t have limited “reserves” of their power (even though both were like the Toa, but conversely, the Toa demonstrate way more control over their element - Kai sets stuff on fire, but I don’t see him sustaining streams of flame like Tahu did in, say MNOG. The same holds true for the others.
The Ninja have spinjitzu (and the related offshoots that clearly exist to sell the latest spinning tops) - but look at the scale of cyclones that Lewa is creating and it’s no contest.
True Potential / Nova Blast are good examples of the maximum power of each. Compare Zane and Kopaka - Zane was able to freeze the… tree-monsterthings (treehorns? I forget the name) with beams of ice - but I could see Kopaka doing the same with a mere fraction of his power. We’ve only seen one Nova Blast in cannon - but it wiped out an entire island. None of the Ninja would have been able to do that.
I’m not counting the obvious additional physical strength of the characters - in a hand-on-hand fight the Toa have an obvious advantage anyway - but this is a comparison of Power Levels, not a “who would win?” scenario.
The only exception is Cole, who you could argue encompasses stone as well - but even then, he’s not going to “bring down the ceiling on us, too!” the way Onua did, in my mind.
It’s probably also worth a mention that Nya vs Gali would fall under this, too - and again, Nya isn’t bringing down an island anytime soon.
Round 2 - Sensei Wu and Garmadon vs…?
This one’s a bit weird. Do they ever state what Wu’s power is, explicitly? I remember he used Creation powers a few times (even though Lloyd can’t?), but there’s no contest in Wu vs Artahka. Gold-Skinned being is similar, but even that’s obviously skewed.
Takanuva might be a a better comparison, but even then, he’s probably going to come out on top.
If we look at the mentor role, we find the Turaga, who we never see fight (although they are stated to have weak elemental powers and I kind of imagine them fighting like Yoda, lol) I think Wu definitely has the edge - probably the most fair comparison is a Turaga Nui, who unfortunately doesn’t appear in anything.
Keetongu might actually be close - in Web of Shadows, he’s even depicted as practically a monk - and in that case, it’s a tough call.
Keetongu has healing properties (of some sort - I think Greg intended it to be an anti-venom, but the movie just had him sort of glow). His weapons are objectively going to crush Wu’s staff, and he’s also got the ability to absorb/redirect power through his rhotuka. But Wu’s edge is his… goldness… spinjitzu, and his creation powers.
Then there’s Toa Ignika, who’s thematically very close to Wu. But he’s on a whole different level.
So yeah.
Garmadon is interesting because his power is extremely vague. In the pilot season, he doesn’t really do anything other than sit in a chair and look evil. After that, he’s grown more arms.
His power has been described as “destruction” - so the obvious antithesis is Makuta - but again, that’s going to be over quick.
Others examples that come to mind are Sidorak, Roodaka, and maybe even The Shadowed One.
I can see Garmadon destroying Sidorak quite easily, actually. They both have armies (although the Visorak are going to trample the skeletons, to be fair.) Sidorak has an obedience Rhotuka that’s going to be way more effective than any mind-powers Garmadon may (or may not?) have, but Garmy has the raw energy to destroy anything Sidorak has.
Roodaka is probably more of a fair contest - again, Garmadon sits above her in pure shadowy power, even though Roodaka has at least enough limited shadow power to fire bolts of darkness. But she has that lethal mutation Rhotuka, too. I’d actually put Garmadon on top here, too, although it’s closer.
Finally there’s TSO. He’s probably got the edge here - though he’s got no plain “shadow” powers, his disintegration eyebeams are kind of a “destruction” power, and (unless you happen to be Zaktan, which Garmadon isn’t) your essentially toast if he makes eye contact with you (sorry, Ancient). He’s also got a staff that creates crystalline protodermis, which is pretty powerful, and an Insanity-inducing rhotuka. Even that’s going to be enough - if you were to also add in (debatably) the viruses he pillaged from Xia, and he’s walking away from this on top.
The most fair match for Garmadon I can think of is a Toa of Shadow, based on how the Shadow Takanuva fought in Reign of Shadows (was it in Reign of Shadows? Whichever serial they went against Mazeka and alt Terridax). They seem on similar power levels, with maybe a slight edge to Garmadon, but it’s very close. But that’s a bit sad considering what a force of evil he’s supposed to be, really.
Round 3 - Serpentine vs Rahkshi
- Fangpyre vs Poison
- Hypnobrai vs Anger/Fear
- Constrictai vs Elasticity
- Venomari vs Illusion
- Anacondrai vs Darkness/Camouflage
This is actually a more fair matchup than you might think. There’s enough Rahkshi powers to (with maybe the exception of the Hypnobrai) make more than a fair match up for each of these. I’ll be comparing a single, non-specific serpentine against a Rahkshi. Against, physical disparities aside, the Rahkshi staffs and the Serpentine weapons won’t factor into this. Just your snake power vs Rahkshi power.
The Fangpyre probably could go toe-to-toe with top tier Rahkshi of Poison. Poison is nasty, and as we saw in Mask of Light, it can have slight mental effects as well as cause a physical barrier (like coating the ground) that the Fangpyre can’t. But their ability to assimilate stuff is effective, and considering that they could literally poison a helicopter into a flying snake (?!?!), they’d be at no disadvantage in the Bionicle universe, either.
Only point of note is that, though they could almost instantaneously transmute inanimate objects, it took Jay pretty much a whole episode (I think?) to start becoming a snake. But still, this one is pretty fair, and I’d almost favour the snake here.
Hypnobrai don’t have a good comparison - fear and anger are the closest powers. But again, the snakes probably have an edge here - they have complete control over their victims (Cole fought with all his ninja skill when he was hypnotized) while something like anger just creates unpredictability. Hypnobrai can also stun someone, although I think the Turahk’s ability to freeze with fear is more significant.
The Rahkshi edge here, of course, is that they can almost effortlessly create these effects. The mere kraata are described as affecting anyone in the vicinity, and they can create concentrated bursts of this energy with their staffs. The Hypnobrai need to maintain a period of sustained eye contact. So actually this one’s pretty close.
Constrictai don’t fair so well. Their power is, well, crushing, and frankly other than the general who has the long snake tail this is really kind of wasted on them. The elasticity Rahkshi are described as practically invulnerable, able to stretch huge distances in the blink of an eye. They’ve got this.
Venomari vs Illusion is pretty close too, but I’d side with the Rahkshi. The Venomari edge here is that the target usually visualizes their fears - which, without a Fear or Mind Reading rahkshi also present, the Illusion rahkshi would never know - but the venomari have to actually spit their venom on their target for it to take effect. Illusion rahkshi can sustain multiple, powerful illusions of their choice at will, that are visible to the targets of their choosing (we know that last bit because of how the fight with Mutran plays out when he’s using this power).
Anacondrai vs Darkness might seem like an odd pairing - but one of the key traits of Darkness rahkshi is that they become invisible in low-light conditions, and are basically capable of creating those conditions at will. But in both this case and camouflage, it’s a reallly equal paring - the ability to turn invisible isn’t really more or less powerful in one camp.
On the whole, these are probably the most fair parings so far.
Round 4 - Elemental Masters vs Toa (mostly)
- Karlof vs Toa of Iron/Devastator
- Paleman vs Jerbraz
- Griffin vs Kanohi Kakama
- Ash vs… ash bear? Lol
- Neuro vs Toa of Psionics (Varian)
- Gravis vs Toa of Gravity
- Bolobo vs Toa of the Green
- Jacob vs Toa of Sonics (Krakua)
- Tox vs Rahkshi of Poison (again)
- Shade vs Toa of Shadow (evil Takanuva)
- Chamille vs Tridax
- Amber vs a bunch
- Morro vs Toa of Air (Lewa)
So let’s get the easy ones out of the way. Gravis, Bolobo, Jacob, and Shade are all at the same disadvantages that the original ninja + Nya were. So the Toa all win here.
Karlof is a bit more interesting, because he doesn’t really “control” iron like a Toa of Iron would. He just sort of transmutes himself into iron. In a fight, he would literally get crushed. The only character with obviously comparable powers is Devastator (and that one vahki combiner), although he turns into sand, which is pretty comparable because he’s got much more maneuverability over Karlof with the extra disadvantage of being elementally susceptible (Nidhiki beat him by dumping a bucket of water on him, but then again, Ninjago had an entire wave of villains who could be beaten the same way. why did the ninja not just use water pistols…). But in any actual fight Devastator is going to walk all over Karloff, obviously.
Actually, a Pakari user would be pretty comparable to Karlof’s power - so that’s probably a fair match as each have their benefits and detriments.
Paleman vs Jerbraz, because Takanuva would destroy him. And frankly, there’s no power level dispute here, because like with the anacondrai, invisible is invisible.
(But obviously in a fight Jerbraz wins this one)
Griffin vs Kakama is objectively fair because we don’t have a speed quantifier for either and Griffin’s control of the “element of speed” seems to literally be just fast running, as opposed to actually speeding/slowing stuff.
Ash has no comparison. Ash is toast.
Neuro vs Toa of Psionics is interesting because Psionics is very different from the other Bionicle elements. Still, if you look at what Varian can do in No One Gets Left Behind, or what Orde does in The Yesterday Quest, I get the feeling they’ve got more power than Neuro does.
Tox’s only benefit is that she can spray stuff at a range. But Lehrak’s poison seems way more potent from what little we have actually seen of both. It’s kind of hard to compare. (Also, is it just me, or does Tox look exactly like one of the Ultra Agents villains?)
Chamille vs Tridax because both are shapeshifters. I’m not comparing Krahka because she duplicates powers, rather than just becomes whatever form she wants. And shapeshifting is shapeshifting - only thing to note is that Tridax has a more deadly repertoire of forms.
Amber is weird. Power absorbing characters in Bionicle include:
- Krahka, who is way way more powerful (can copy just by sight and merge multiple forms, + shapeshifting)
- Mimic, who is weaker (also copying rather than absorbing and can only duplicate physical feats. I think it would be a fair fight because he’s a biomechanical swordsman, but his powers in isolation are less effective)
- Keetongu (who can absorb powers used against him and redirect them). Keetongu is probably better here.
Morro vs Lewa is pretty elementary (lol pun), except he’s a ghost. But as discussed above, ghosts in ninjago are really weak. Krika is the closest thing to a Bionicle ghost, but he’s also a Makuta, so…
Round 5 - Lloyd vs Everything
So lloyds powers are just a mess. He controls green energy, and the four main elements (which made sense when those were the only four, but now it’s just so arbitrary), and he also has the power to turn gold and use… gold power.
So the obvious comparison is… the Toa Inika… in Hero Mode?
(Hero mode theme plays)
But seriously, even though the player in that game is, jokes aside, the closest thing to Lloyd I can think of, let’s look at cannon stuff:
- Kaita - Kaita has the strength of three individuals and elements - Lloyd is just one guy, but with four elements + bunch of other powers. So he’s more powerful.
- Maybe Tuyet? They’re only vaguely comparable, but this could be a genuinely cool fight to see, actually - I wouldn’t know who to bank on.
- Krahka is also a pretty fair match.
- Gold Skinned Being is comparable, but sorry Lloyd, your toast.
- Energized Protodermis Entity - this is actually probably the closest thing in cannon to Lloyd, weirdly enough. He’s still toast.
But the best match is probably “toa” Mata Nui. The Ignika gives me the feeling Mata-Nui has the edge here, especially if you consider that, if the screen treatment from the fifth movie was anything to go off, he had innate gravity powers too. But it’s pretty close.
tl;dr: Both universes have arbitrary power systems, but Bionicle’s is at least consistent whereas Ninjago’s is just a mess. If we’re talking about power levels (which we are, even though it’s kind of a pointless discussion to have) - then Bionicle is, generally speaking, playing on a much higher tier than Ninjago.
Bonus Round - Dareth vs Vezon
I’ll let you guys make your minds up on this one.
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You’re correct. They are treehorns.
At his true potential, he probably could.[quote=“Toa-of-Snow, post:42, topic:51611”]
Ash has no comparison. Ash is toast.
[/quote]
Have I mentioned that I hate Ash? An Elemental Master of SMOKE? Please.
It is not just you. She and Paleman are indeed models of Ultra Agents villains that they plopped in Ninjago.
I feel like I’ve mentioned this before, but Ninjago ghosts have the ability to possess objects and take control of them. Morro could probably take control of some larger, stronger body (though that would be cheating).
And here you go:
Yeah, I think we can all agree on this.
I’d say Vezon.
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But Onua wasn’t at his full potential. He was Nuva, sure, but that was a fraction of his complete power.
So he’s Antidermis then? Because that’s definitely not a match that will end well for him. 
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If his opponent happens to have control over Iron or Magnetism, sure.
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Wu might have the upper hand, actually. He has creation Spinjitsu to his name, so he could, in theory, just make a gun and shoot Lhikan, or something OP like that.
The Skullkin are kinda pathetic in general, and the DHs prove more than a match for any one Toa at different points in the '04 story. Those skelly boys are gonna need a second grave.
Come on now, that’s just not fair. Dareth is the most powerful being in the universe.
If I understand Skylor’s power correctly, she can copy other elemental powers. However, Vezon has no elemental power to copy, and can’t even use it on his own because he’s a Skakdi. Let’s be fair and assume this is post-Ignition Vezon. No Ignika, no Spear of Fusion, just him and his dagger. He can probably overpower her by force, though he has no formal combat training, so Skylor may, in theory, just wage a war of attrition.
Aight, now I get it. Here’s the problem with that reasoning: Light exists outside of our eyes. It’s an electromagnetic wave that’s there whether we perceive it or not. A Toa of Light controls actual light, allowing him to shoot lasers and make visual illusions. His element doesn’t just act on the victim’s mind; it affects the real, physical universe.
Psionics, presumably, deals with consciousness first and foremost. Every other element entails the ability to control and create the thing that element correlates to, which is some real substance or phenomenon. Toa of matter-based elements can all make that matter on the spot; Toa of energy-based ones can do the same. Psionics should, in theory, operate on the same rules if it really makes sense as an element: if minds are counted as “energy,” and beings with this elemental power can control minds, then surely they can create them as well. If they cannot, does it really make sense to consider it an elemental power?
I would argue that, in this context, we should absolutely be clear on what any elemental power truly does and entails. If we want Orde to fight, uh…whoever the Mind ninja was, I forget…we need to lay some ground rules for what is and isn’t possible. 'Course, if nobody cares about that fight, this particular topic could go to the elements thread.
Now this is a fair fight. Truly, a great anime battle for the ages, which generations will speak of for eons to come.
But are their powers at all similar? I wouldn’t say they are.
Pretty sure everyone can spank Sidorak without even trying. I could kill him, and I’m out of shape as ■■■■.
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I was more talking about them from a thematic perspective, because I wouldn’t really say anyone has similar powers to Wu. Anyone in Bionicle with powers remotely alike to him is also magnitudes of strength ahead, to the point where it’s not worth discussing (like Artahka).
Garmadon vs Karzahni, on the other hand, could be interesting… but again, we’re not at all talking about like powers.
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You had me on the floor laughing here. 
I’m rooting for Skylor here, TBH.
His name was Neuro. And he wasn’t a ninja.
Who’s ■■■■ ?
Like powers or not, that would still be fun to watch.
But remember, Ninja never quit
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