You asked if stone should be in G3, therefore, how it would be received and how it would affect the line are relevant.
It’s not a small change with no effect. While air to jungle was a relatively small jump given that Le-Koro was located in a jungle, stone to iron is a giant leap since all of Po-Koro was based around stone and the carving thereof. The entire aestetic of the desert village would have to be completely changed to work with the new element and now you’ve gone from changing one character to an entire culture.
This is true. But it’s not always a minority. The majority of people think G2 was a letdown. The majority of people prefer air to jungle. And I can almost guarantee you that once you finished overhauling all of the things that would have to change to make your “one small change” make sense, the VAST MAJORITY would hate it.
As far as rationalizing G1’s clusterheck goes, I understand this reasoning, but shouldn’t this just mean that Toa of X element would only control the part of the substance that applies to them?
Not really, since most things Stone can do can also be done with Earth.
No, I mean the literal definition of power creep is limited to games. To quote TV Tropes:
Touche.
That remark was not made in reference to changing elements. Obviously, that is a substantial change; that’s the whole reason I’m proposing making it, because it would have a discernible effect. But if Po-Koro’s culture is heavily reliant on carving, why exactly does the element change stop them from continuing this? Because Ta-Koro is dependent on lava-farming, and lava is not fire; and Le-Koro was dependent on the forest, which isn’t really involved with the air. Even so, metal sculpture is a thing. Of course, I’m still assuming that Iron would replace Stone here, so bear in mind that that’s where I’m coming from with this.
G2 was a letdown because it genuinely sucked, not simply for its differences to G1 (though things like Pohatu becoming a walking salt shaker didn’t exactly help). The Air-Jungle fiasco had no real benefit to the actual story and was solely rooted in focus groups, which is why it was a poor decision. And as I’ve said, not a lot need to be changed based around the Stone-Iron ■■■■■ save for minor details; not Pohatu himself, not the world, not the action scenes, only a little piece of the lore.
And I just want to point out that, of the original 6 elements, Stone got the least support in the recent poll. Only 37% voters seemed to want it to stay; and the only reason it doesn’t have more support is, apparently, because those who didn’t choose it were not able to universally agree on one alternative. That’s not a vast majority at all; though I will concede that we’re a limited population around these parts, pardner.
yes i am aware of the definition and the correct term is “So last season” i was just using the term that meant roughly the same thing, but was more common
Yes, you could change it to metal sculptures, but this poses the same issue as the fighting styles we discussed over in the elements poll. They’d be doing sculpture only to make them seem similar to the original Po-Koro, even though making tools would make much more sense for a village of iron. Similarly you’d have to change the general aestetic of the village from a desert village to something that makes more sense for iron as an element.
Yes and no. It’s differences from G1 are what made G2 suck. Not the air/jungle fiasco, or the Mata Nui/Ekimu change, but the changes they made in storytelling and world design. G2 was flat, both in story and atmosphere, while G1 was not. This can be defined as a change made from G1 to G2 that made it suck.
This is true, but it’s still higher than iron or any other ‘secondary’ element. And while you say the only reason it’s higher is because no one can agree on what to replace it with, I remind you that while
For at least some of those people it’s their favorite element. Is it mine, no, but there are many people who love Pohatu as he was. Who were upset at the changes made in G2 and just want to see the character done justice. And the way to do that, is not by changing one of the fundamental aspects of his character.
Or they could just be known for the quality of their tools, which are metallic in nature and used by them to sculpt. Also, isn’t your whole argument for keeping Stone based around making things more like the original Bionicle?
The setting does not have to change. Like I said, there could be iron in the sand or rock formations. It would certainly work better than Ta-Koro’s volcanic setting, where the only things that are actually on fire are that which the locals have deliberately set aflame.
This is kind of a stretch. G2 didn’t suck because it was different from G1, it was different from G1 in that it sucked. That’s not the same thing. Whether or not it has good characters, a reasonable plot, etc. isn’t a factor when comparing it to G1 in any regard other than quality.
That those people favor Stone in particular is not a factor. There’s still less of them than those who want it gone.
Pohatu’s character does not have to be destroyed just because his powers become different. He can still act, fight, and feel like his original incarnation no matter what. Those are the fundamentals of who he is, not just the powers he uses. Those powers are pretty much only skin-deep. He as a character does not have to change in a meaningful way because his skills do.
Yes it is. In G2 they changed how they were going to tell the story, and that change is the core of what made it bad.
That is a stretch. At this point the fact that they are sculptors exist only to draw it closer to the original Po-Koro and would likely be received as yet another “G1 reference” with no plot relevence, and the same can be said for the desert setting.
But this change didn’t hurt G2 just because of its inherent deviation. The change resulted in a bad story that can be seen as such regardless of the context it is taken in. The story told could have been able to stand on its own and not suck regardless of whether or not it was Bionicle. However, the poor writing, bad acting, and unentertaining story made it bad. This is wholly irrelevant to its faithfulness to G1, which is still important, mind you, just not the deciding factor in whether or not it was a good work of fiction.
The original G1 setting of Po-Koro had no real “plot relevance” either. It was just the setting. If the setting absolutely must change for this change in elements, why exactly is that bad? Bionicle was never Bionicle just forits lore, but for its storytelling. Keeping the plot and characters in the same spirit of G1 is what matters, not something as shallow as the world it takes place in, which can still have the contrast of sci-fi and fantasy that it always did even if it’s an urban setting like Metru Nui.
You are largly correct here and what it ultimately comes down to is this: how much can you change something before it’s no longer what it was? I would argue that you can either change the setting of the characters but not both. In G2 they changed the setting and the characters slightly, but not enough to make them too distinct from G1. The island was different but effectively the same, and Lewa’s element change was never really adaauitly shown to where it affected his character. The problem with removing stone is it forces a massive change both to the setting and Pohatu’s character.
The setting does not impact the story being told in a meaningful way. As long as G3’s story retains the same atmosphere, tone, and similar subject matter to G1’s, and its characters are believable takes on the originals whom we came to know as love as little kiddies, it is a faithful adaptation. It could be in space, and it would still work.
And the characters do not change. Only the setting, if even that. How everyone behaves is not affected by a change in lore; only an outright change in how they’re written. Pohatu is not defined by rocks. He is defined by his friendliness, his kindness, and his joviality. He is one-third of the adhesive that keeps Tahu and Kopaka from killing each other, and he’s ultimately going to be shipped with someone en masse just because everyone finds him so approachable. Whether he shoots metal or rock from his hands doesn’t matter; only who he is as a person.
Personally I think that Stone should stay in G3 ( if anything, Earth should get the boot) but I would be heart broken. As long as they kept the character of Pohatu central to his character, I would be fine with anything. Getting rid or merging an element with something that is virtually the same actually makes sense, both from a marketing and storytelling standpoint. From a marketing standpoint, it makes things more concise and actually saves LEGO time on designing and molding a new character. And from a storytelling standpoint, it makes things less confusing.
And who’s to say it couldn’t be added back into the mix along the line!
While I see where you are coming I would say that Lewa is better as Air since the Le matorian are shown to live up in the tree tops and comfortable in higher places, so you could argue that their color is for camp. While this is streachting things out a bit, I would add that Le matorian and Air Toa make up for armor color with abilities.
Ok, I’m getting tired of having the same argument in two different topics, I’ve already contended this point over in the polls, if you want to see it go look over there, now that TTV themselves have gotten involved I guess it’s not off topic so I’ll just be over there.