We still have the Tryna, and someone could 3D print one of the other immoral masks in the comics (like the mask of aging), and of course Teridax’s own mask. I don’t think they would honor Teridax, so that just leaves the other ones.
Given that Toa seem to have an issue with their powers, not their association with Makuta, I think it’s safe to say they didn’t use those shapes.
idk cancel culture would totally agree
“I’m gonna ditch this mask since the evil Makuta Gorast also wears it”
“But you wear it to honor Toa Placeholdername, who lived a life of virtue and did no wrong!”
“Yeah but Gorast also wears it, so I’m tossing it in the garbage”
Im not sure it works the same way
As far as their relation to the concept of damnatio memoriae (that is, the complete destruction of a person’s memory by erasing them from the record, usually for political purposes or because of heinous crimes), it’s totally applicable
I know. I said Makuta masks. Tryna and mask of aging should 100% be allowed.
Edit: not a mod, but please be careful about discussing politics, guys. Just a friendly reminder.
I’m not sure I see the logic with that. They were never associated with the Makuta to begin with, and yet Toa still find them immoral. This implies that Toa have always found them immoral.
Their power, not their shape.
The past hero might not have been a Toa.
But why would they honor someone who used a power they find immoral? That seems like an ethical contradiction.
Hmm, fair point.
Though, it could be possible. Consider this, if a Hagah team were formed now, it’s very likely one of them would have a tryna in honour of Matoro. And hey, maybe the person who wore the mask couldn’t use the power.
Why would someone honor Matoro? He had a dishonorable mask power.
Because sometimes a hero rises above their conditions. Remember a lot of Makuta got killed by fellow Makuta because they weren’t like the Makuta that survived til the end
Haha, I knew someone would mention Matoro.
Matoro was a weird case where he was essentially forced to have that mask. It’s not also like the “good” makuta were forced to wear immoral masks either. Outside of some exceptional circumstances mentioned in canon, I don’t think many heroes were forced to wear immoral masks for their “main” mask.
Also what would the odds be that the Tryna was forced upon two separate heroes that have died?
Just because we don’t know doesn’t mean it didnt happen though. We have evidence that it CAN happen. And because of the timespan of the Bionicle universe I’d be absolutely flabbergasted if it happened only once
Consider this: a heroic Matoran with a Tryna.
I mean, sure, this is a fictional universe and you could in theory come up with a story for anything. But at that point this is almost becoming a story contest rather than a character design contest, haha.
I just don’t feel like we have the authority of adding another story of a past hero who died and whose main mask was the Tryna but they had no choice but to wear it. I feel like such an addition might cause some confusion, lol.
I’m not adding that story specifically, you just asked is all. From my perspective it doesn’t even seem like a stretch. It sounds like to you that maybe it is, but I guess thats just a difference of opinion
The whole “Immoral Masks” thing was always dumb to begin with.
Like I can understand looking some mask powers and going “Yeah, this seems extremely cruel, let’s not use it”, but they rather overdid it when they decided that literally every Makuta mask was Immoral.
So you end up with some nebulous Toa Rule-Making Body (Presumably the same one that made the Toa code up?) saying that the Mask of Yeet is pure evil but mind control? That’s A-Okay, a 100% moral power to use.
(The presence of the Tryna means the whole thing reminds me of that post that points out that Enchantment is a much more morally bankrupt form of magic than Necromancy.)
I mean heck, the Toa have explicit rules against enslaving corpses (Which shouldn’t exist because Red Star but we don’t have time to unpack that plothole), but consider it perfectly fine to enslave living people.
The Mask of Charisma legit lets anyone wearing it rewrite the morality of another being by talking to them, making it easily the most horrifying, sinister thing Greg ever wrote, and it’s just… a footnote detail worn by a C-list hero and pretty much never actually used in the story.
And it’s not on the Immoral list. But the Mask of Yeet is.
I would recommend not thinking too hard about the Immoral Mask thing, because it’s not about to start making sense any time soon.
Okay, hear me out: Gaaki used her Mask of Clairvoyance to see Matoro Mahri, and thus was honouring Matoro.
this is a joke, BTW.
I just feel like that since our story took place in the time span of less than a year and it did happen, that in 10,000 years it could happen at least a few times. That doesnt seem like much of a stretch to me
Well, it would have to be that story specifically. Here are the facts:
The mask shape honors a past hero.
Toa find the Tryna immoral.
We can assume that the Hagah would not honor a hero that willingly used an immoral power, implying that if the hero had one, they were forced to wear it.
Also, yeah the whole idea of a super strict and arbitrary moral code like this is a bit problematic when you look into it, but hey, it’s a kid’s toy line, haha.
YOU can assume that, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that. He could be considered more honorable than most for having to wear that mask, or choosing to not even use the power. I’m really not trying to create fine details about it. It just seems neigh impossible that no ancient Toa/heroes didn’t don one of the masks that exists in the universe, for whatever the reason may be.
We disagree here, you aren’t going to convince me by repeating it a few more times. Let’s just disagree