Not saying the masks powers are the problem. When the Makuta were allies, yes, they were viewed, likely, as fine, but the Hagah eventually were enemies of the Makuta and likely wouldn’t bear any mask representing or honoring figures that they were at odds with. I do not mean the masks themselves are immoral: I mean that their bearers are, and as such, I don’t see the Hagah wearing that which honors an enemy.
This is truly opinion, but one that I fiercely hold to considering how fiercely Toa have been seen to cling to their codes, their morals, and their virtues. I believe it to be more than just in character for a Toa to cast aside any mask that could bear resemblance or credence to any enemy of the Matoran or universe at large.
I disagree, given one of the two Hagah we have already breaks this “rule”. I’d personally have a 50/50 split with 2 mocs using Kanohi of existing shapes and the other 2 not doing so to fit with the precedent set by Norik and Iruini.
They likely wouldn’t be honouring the Makuta though. For example, a Toa could be honouring a past hero who wore a Felnas, who wasn’t Gorast.
While I like the idea, they’d still be new mask shapes. In the story, iruini would stir bro the only a one with the right shape, and for us it would be “four have masks we’ve seen someone else wear and two don’t” (i say four because the Kualsi got reused on defilak)
While I could see that, I would still say the Felnas would need to constitute an original design, given the part we have is mutated/shapeshifted too. Mosquito Gaaki would… not look good.
Personally, I would still hesitate to allow the Olmak as that logic train requires very specific, unknown events to be the cause for it, and the build would need to account for a Titan sized mask on a build very likely too small for it. You make a valid and undeniable point, I simply hesitate to follow the logical hoops required to allow it.
So, I disagree with this.
It was established in 2005 that their masks were forged in shapes to honor past heroes. This wasn’t done simply for flavoring, but rather (I assume) was done to explain why Norik wears a noble-shaped Kanohi, as that’s what the set designers gave him. Whether it is a stupid reason/solution, that is irrelevant, it is the canon and well-established solution to the problem, and undermining it would leave us at square one: Why does Norik have one in a different shape but not the others? Norik cannot be the exception, he needs to be the rule.
Iruini doesn’t break this rule, he is simply honoring someone who wore a Kualsi as well. Now of course, you may ask, doesn’t this mean the other Hagah could do the same, it wouldn’t undermine anything, right? It would. For one, think of how many mask powers, known and unknown, that there are, and multiply that by at least two (for Greats and Nobles). There’s a one in (that number) chance that the mask of the being they’re honoring would wear a Great version of their same mask. That is very unlikely. For Iruini, this is fine, but for multiple Hagah, I’d simply put it like this: One’s a coincidence, two’s a trend.
Now you may ask, “couldn’t they just choose ones that have matching masks?” and this is where it really starts to undermine things. If you’re choosing to honor these heroes because of what masks they wore, then you’re not honoring them for their heroics. Additionally, it does not seem particularily much like “honoring” them if you’re set on sticking with the same shape you already had, instead you are running away from “changing yourself” in their honor.
As for the Felnas/Shelek–But this would not have been relevant when the masks were forged, and it only became relevant when they became Rahaga, at which point they no longer had the masks. (And effectively the entire time since becoming Hagah once more, they’ve been in constant wars, no time to worry about your mask shape, especially to replace it with a mask power you don’t know how to use as effectively as your own.)
OK, now I’m on to the actual questions. I will say that I have no real issues with the current ruleset as-is, though some of the minor things people have picked up on could potentially improve things further. Other than some clarifications that I’m unclear on, I’d be a-ok with the contest launching like this.
That said, the clarifications:
Firstly - what are the rules on what can/can’t be changed in the “group” art at the end? That could be important. If, like, three of the winners are metallic gold/silver but one happens to be, say, pink (as a random nonspecific example ofcourse) could that be changed, or no? It’s not particularly clear on the details, and it could influence voting quite considerably so I think it’s worth making specific early.
Additionally: with masks (specifically in the art portion). Is the three perspective view necessary? By my understanding, completely original designs are disallowed, so I wouldn’t think we’d need to detail the shape of the mask (especially since that may well be subject to change in the final section anyway).
Also, what exactly counts as an existing mask design? Could I use a mask that appeared in the canon (like comics) but has no confirmed power? What about a mask design that appeared in semi-canon material? (Think “Vision Mask” from VNOG, which is currently not connected with any canon mask powers).
Perhaps this section of the rules should be rewritten with more clarity? I was about to ask the same question.
Just wanted to second this point specifically, didn’t see a response to it. I’m not sure how many people would do it but it seems to make sense to me.
What side of this line do canon masks without physical parts fall under? (Think AU masks like Fusion, Rebounding, the incredibly underrated Sensory Aptitude, the stuff I mentioned above [if it’s allowed], etc).
One Last Edit: Mask of Elemental Energy is fair game, right? I don’t see it listed, but it’s a mask that’s only “worn” in certain situations. I think it should be allowed.
For the rest of your argument, I concede your point has merit, I simply wished to express my own opinions on it. However, I feel this “lack of time” argument is quite out of place given the precedent set by many of the main characters, especially Toa, throughout Bionicle’s run (being their tendencies to swap armor and weapons like they’re average wardrobe items). While this can be explained away as “oh, that’s just because toy line”, I would counterpoint that the same argument could be used for much else in the story as a whole, and see zero issue with a Toa performing a quick mask swap or having a new one made in a random timeframe
This is true; and yeah, I agree it’d be a headache if they did wear a Felnas/Shelek-shape. However I think it’s extremely unlikely that’d win, so not overly concerned.
a) If MOC wins, it’s not canon, but ‘inspiration’ for Canon Group Art
b) If Artwork wins, it’s not canon, but ‘inspiration’ for Canon Group Art
Canon Group Art follow-up contest
So there wont be an individual artwork follow-up contest for MOCs that win, and any individual artworks that win aren’t actually canonised? The latter seems a shame if so; although assuming they aren’t majorly modified in the group art, I guess they’ll be as-good-as for most fans.
OR
If we are having individual artwork follow-ups for winning MOCs, but those still aren’t actually canonised (and can be changed in the group artwork) then is the added delay from this extra artwork step worth it?
I must admit I am quite happy with this ruleset. It is probably the best I could realistically hope for.
I have a very specific question though. Would Hydraxon’s helmet be valid as a mask for a Toa Hagah ? Technically, it is not a Kanohi mask so it cannot have been worn by past heroes so I guess at first sight it would be a “no”.
However, hear me out. We know it is a helmet. We do not know why it is shaped like it is. This contest offers a one of a kind opportunity to canonize the shape of Hydraxon’s helmet as being the shape of a Kanohi mask of unknown power. Simply whoever created Hydraxon’s helmet used the same shape as that Kanohi for Hydraxon’s powerless helmet. (Maybe he was honoring the same past hero ? Who knows ?) This would allow us to reclaim that mask part that has been somewhat disgraced by not being a Kanohi in lore.
My problem with this is that Hydraxon canonically can wear and use Kanohi, kind of suggesting that whatever the powerless thing on his face is isn’t one.
Maybe, the original rule clearly states however that the spear has to have the exact same size as the other Hagahs spear so making Bomongas spear shorter would already be a no go if those were the final rules.
So my solution was limit the axle and connector structure so that you can at least use whatever spear tip you want because as is a nothing longer than Irunii and Noriks full spear is allowed.
Here we find a classic example of limitations being put into place and people immediately looking for creative ways to skirt the limitations, despite never having had these ideas before the limitations existed.
