I would absolutely say it’s required for Hagah staffs to be identical, only varying in the spearhead. It’s a canon contest, not a creativity contest.
And that was my original point, hence this:
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I was referring to the Order of Mata-Nui because the Hand of Artakha was not regarded as “heroic” in universe. This is specifically what led to their disbanding in the first place. Therefore, the shape likely cannot be used based on Hydraxon deeds with the Hand of Artakha. It could be argued that since he was invited into the Order of Mata-Nui that he might be more heroic than the average Hand member but anyway, Greg’s statement kinda kills my idea completely. Since the Hagah wears Kanohi shaped like other Kanohi, and Hydraxon helmet is not a Kanohi and cannot even be considered to be shaped like another Kanohi, I don’t think it is possible to make it work. I’m sad for this poor helmet part.
I misunderstood, my apologies. I was under the impression you were trying to finesse a way to enable the dual-headed spear.
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No, I think Tarkur brings up something worth discussing. As it currently is, pieces such as Kopaka Mata’s Sword, Lewa’s Air Katana, the Dark Flat Gold KKII swords, and most blades really aren’t allowed in the comp because they’re larger than Iruinis 10L spear tip. I think that Tarkur has a good compromise, it allows for people to change the length of the shaft to make spearheads more proportional.
If Tarkur’s solution isn’t popular however, I’d recommend the rules have a stipulation that allows for a certain length. I think room for the KKII swords atleast should be allowed, as those are one of the few parts released in Dark Flat Gold. Without those parts, people who want to make unpainted mocs are going to have considerably more trouble.
Edit: ah, I see you were arguing against dual headed spears, Keplers. Still, I think clarification for what is or is not allowed for a spear tip’s length should be given.
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It all depends on how “substantially longer” is meant to be interpreted, I feel.
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No worries, it’s all sorted out now.
yeah, you’re just adding more counters to my unreads 
no way in h e c c that I’m doing this again.
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I don’t really get why a spear can’t be longer than Iruini’s. I understand that there needs to be a limit, but I think that a spear can get a little longer than Norik’s, before it begins to look ridiculous or Un-Hagah-like.
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BUT
I mean I don’t think the rules should be changed or anything but I do want to say there can be variance without the models looking non canon or incohesive.
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FFA specific:
How canon those Arts and MOCs are? Will both types be featured in the Trivia section on BS01, not as main image?
Does art have to show Lego pieces, or it can be anything, thus removing initial concept of replicability?
Can you please specify, what can and what cannot be changed in the Group Art part, in both cases (for MOCs and Arts)?
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I see no reasoning behind this one. Hips are not THAT important for Metru build. Especially since:
When “doing a Pohatu”, people might want to broaden his shoulders a bit, which is prohibited by rules right now. I think that the rule should be “Utilize the upper portion of a Metru Torso as it is intended (as a torso, either lower or upper)”.
Another argument - rules do not prohibit connection of arms via balljoints, while people might say that it is much more important for a Metru build than hips.
Either any sort of hips should be allowed, or “doing a Pohatu” should be prohibited, in my opinion. I like the first option more.
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Does upside down Hagah shield in art count as good for that rule? As several people pointed out, shield connected to the forearm should be allowed, as there is no reason to prohibit it - Greg never explicited that they hold their shields via hands. Also, storing shield on thigh should be allowed, in a fashion of 2016 Ekimu, as it too was never stated that any of the Hagah (exception for Norik) stored their shields on their backs. I suggest that rule should be “Feature a shield. Art must render the specific Hagah Shield piece, and MOCs may opt for a custom shield.”
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To further expand the question:
Are several pieces used as a spear-tip allowed? A dual-headed spear? Something like Pohatu Uniter’s, Gali Uniter’s or Gali Master’s weapons?
I support such a formulatuion of this rule: “Feature a spear. Feature must consist of a shaft and 1-2 spear-tips. Minimum shaft length is 12 (±) modules/pinholes. Overall minimum length is 18 (±). Any (multi piece included) spear-tips are allowed as long as they are no longer than half of the shaft itself.” Maybe a maximum length rule should be added, though I see no reason making those spears longer…
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This is actually very cool, as it more-or-less won’t allow super-detailed MOCs, since they are usually bigger. I’d say that rule should be enforced in future contests too.
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I find all the other rules very nice.
Hope that was of any help, thank you for such an organized feedback session!
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Regular reminder that Iruini is canonically the only exception.
If kualus has a new mask shape, then it becomes the shape of an unknown mask. It isn’t the mask of Rahi Control.
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I mean I don’t see a problem here the rule doesn’t limit you from making a “Pohatu”
I doesn’t. It limits hips usage. Which is the problem. I might’ve been unclear, sorry.
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Yeah; I was arguing why it makes sense, even outside the ruling from the quotes.
On a different note, something else I’d just like to quickly adress because it was brought up in a previous discussion - Pouks’ mask. How do we know what counts as a “Mask of Emulation,” what if it’s just a similar mask?
Well, simple. This isn’t moderated by AI, and I fully trust that the staff is able to reasonably distinguish if the mask used is intended to replicate it or not–and when it comes to “a similar mask,” that’s just an excuse trying to evade the restriction despite using a mask that is replicating the MoEmulation. And the end of the day, it is still replicating that mask. These hypothetical “grey” area really is not a problem in practice, nor one of concern. It has only been fabricated to argue against the rule, when it would not actually occur.
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I still disagree with disallowing custom builds, though I can see the idea behind it. However, I think at the very least I think an allowance should be made for the Vahki hip – i.e. it must include either a Metru hip or a Vahki hip.
I still disagree with this, but it’s not a hill I’m going to die on.
Quick clarification: do mocs have to use a shield, or can they leave off the shield, understandting that it would be added in the final art?
I agree, this definitely needs some limits. I think that the limit should be on the whole spear, handle and tip(s?). Maybe it must be no more than 3 studs longer than Norik’s, or shorter than Iruini’s?
I agree with this. I don’t want the Hagah to have mettalic shinguards.
Question: could a moc use multiple metallic colors, to be recolored to one shade in the art?
I would add the Olisi to that list as well.
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There exists ways to be creative within the current rule, using a slightly different hip wont make anyone go, “wow that’s super creative”. Now I might be wrong but this is at least what I think
Really, what are the odds of a Hagah wearing a mask we’ve already seen?
I’m surprised no one has done this already. Here’s a full list of masks that we know of and are allowed for the contest, broken up by how they appear.
- Masks that have pieces(28)
Hau, Kaukau, Akaku, Kakama, Pakari, Miru, Huna, Rau, Mahiki, Matatu, Komau, Ruru, Calix, Elda, Sanok, Kadin, Iden, Arthron, Faxon, Zaath, Garai, Volitak, Kualsi, Rode, Olmak, Charisma, Kiril, Suletu*
- masks that have known shapes (9)
Emulation, Psychometry, Possibilities, Adaption, Biomechanics, Conjuring, Fusion, Rebounding, Sensory Aptitude
- masks that have an unknown default form (3)
Shelek, Felnas, Mutation
- masks that have no shape (19)
Pehkui, Claivoyance, Growth, Rahi Control, Intangibility**, Healing, Fire, Ice, Water, Stone, Earth, Air, Lightning, Sound, Magnetism, Plasma, Plantlife, Iron, Psionics
*okay, sorta; it would be the set Suletu, but without the rotted portions
**until the Tuyet contest anyway, perhaps this one shouldn’t be on here.
So just looking at the powers we know of, there is a 37–22 odds of it being a shape we know of.
It would allow for some creative designs like this, by @Pakari
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And of course, they could also be Kanohi that we haven’t heard of before; there are 142 Kanoka combinations up to three disks, and that doesn’t include Toa Disks or non-Kanoka Kanohi. Granted, there’s no guarantee that every combination yields a viable Kanohi power, but there has to be a few new good ones in there.
Also, the Inika masks might belong in “unknown default forms”; Greg has flip-flopped on this many times, sometimes even in the span of hours.
While its a nice use of a different hip piece and a good moc, it doesn’t make me go “that’s creative” it feels more like a metru with extra steps.
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