The problem with Norik’s mask is the confusion from having the wrong shape, while the “problem” with this hypothetical mask just wouldn’t have a known power.
A better “reverse” comparison would be the fact that we don’t know what the true shape of the Pehkui is, which is something that is much less controversial.
Gray area in the rules aside, there’s also the point made by Wolk:
If these masks were used, they would canonically become not the originally-designed Kanohi; if your standard “Jutlin” wins, it becomes canonically barred from being the Jutlin.
Now, if you’re okay with that, then I guess that’s that.
(But actually, would you be okay with that? I’ve been meaning to ask for a while; I want to use your “Mask of Psychometry” if I can get my hands on one, but I wasn’t sure if you’d be okay with your design being used as something other than the intended design.)
Plus, at the end of the day, it should be pretty easy to tell if an mask was made in good faith; I find it hard to believe that someone would honestly, accidentally, without-any-outer-influence, create a custom mask that looks similar enough to a banned mask to cause a problem.
Given how much the Toa care about their public appearance, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d be against their mask even appearing to be immoral.
It was a decision made by Greg back in the day, as Toa traditionally steer clear of wearing masks with immoral powers, and as such would go the extra step to avoid wearing a mask in the likeness of an immoral mask as well. We incorporate that rule because it was what he wished.
Do we have anything that says if a being wore what the Toa deemed to be immoral Kanohi it automatically corrupted them to their core? We know that a lot of beings in the Universe didn’t choose the masks that they currently wear. We also know that there are characters that are deemed good now that wear ‘neutral’ Kanohi that have terrible pasts. Looking at you, Warlord Axonn
I mean one would figure after Axonn’s past that the Rode would be able to garner the same type of negative reaction as a Makuta mask, if beings were so staunch in that regard
I don’t see any reason that they necessarily have to be conflated for being evil themselves even if the power isn’t one a Toa wouldn’t use themselves, because the mask is supposed to commemorate the individual, not that person’s mask power.
No blanket quotes, but on an individual basis Greg has talked ad nauseum about specific masks being considered immoral, and as such not worn by a Toa out of choice (ex., Krika’s mask of repulsion being immoral and not worn by Toa because nature itself repels you).
Q: Why would a toa find krika’s mask immoral?
Greg: Because it makes even nature itself repel you Official Greg Dialogue | Page 156 (thegreatarchives.com)
The masks themselves do not corrupt, they are simply seen immoral by the Toa Code and as such are not used on principle because of their nature–Toa see themselves as protectors, defenders, heroes. Etc. As such, on principle, they do not seek out masks with abilities associated with evil, immorality, etc.
A final point, the Hagah’s masks were made to honor past heroes, and as I recall, even when allies, the Makuta never really served much of a “hero” role, but rather a rahi creation and “be in charge of ___ area” role. As Toa are, and always have been, associated with the term “hero”, it is very likely that the heroes being honored were in themselves Toa. Especially since they rebelled against the Brotherhood of Makuta and even back then the immoral masks were considered against the Toa Code, I find it highly unlikely that they would honor any Makuta by wearing a mask in the likeness of an immoral mask.
There are other beings that wear Kanohi outside of Makuta as well.
And the Toa code evolved over time meaning that it was most likely a bit looser in some regards for aspects we can never be clear of during the earlier days.
In addition, using the language Heroes rather than Toa to me really does provide avenue for being more open to the sources of inspiration.
I will also again state that these Toa have to be more open minded individuals than a standard Toa for working with a Makuta in the first place.
People are acting like TTV doesn’t have discretion and common sense. The Jutlin, Crast, and Felnas are obviously meant to be a Jutlin, Felnas, and Crast, so they would be disqualified. Plain and simple.
The mocr is an interesting case, however, I personally wouldn’t allow it because it is based upon the description of the mocr, and because no other mask has been described with runes.
Also: why would you go out of your way to toe the line? Why make a mask that looks like the mask of emulation but different, when you have 33 other options and literally infinity custom designs you could make, and not have any issues?
That’s not meant to be directed at you, by the way. That’s anyone entering the contest.
Not really. Everyone thought the Makuta were good back then. Heck, Toa worked with them against the barakki.
Hey, I’ve been throwing a build idea around my head for a while, and wanted to see what was thought of it. I went into designing builds for this contest with the intention of making my hagah about as diverse as the Mahri or Mata. A few standard builds, a few that go a small step beyond, and a few that push (but don’t cross) the boundaries. Try this on: backwards Metru Torso.
This is a concept build meant to show off the potential of a backwards Metru build. Before you dismiss this, I’d like to point out that there have been many backwards canister sized Toa in the past; Hahli Mahri, Hewkii Mahri, Rockoh Pohatu, Gali Mistika, all initially come to mind. If we include non Toa into this list, the precedent is even larger. Gorast, Vorox, Rahkshi Stars, and many more. Similar to how many of those can be called a “backwards Inika build” or a “backwards Piraka build”, I suggest the “backwards Metru build” could fit in perfectly fine.
At this point, you’re probably wondering “what’s the advantage of this, Door? There can’t possibly be a practical reason for this build.” Well, I intend to show there actually are many.
Reason 1. It easily allows for a friction ball to be added to the rear of the MoC. Mechanically, it’s similar to the friction adder used in Onua Master’s right shoulder. Not only does this preserve the signature Metru gearbox, it enhances it. Many say the Metru build is peak Bionicle for having both form and function. I say, why not lean into that identity?
To prove the strength of the friction ball, Hagaraxon will now hold out his free arm AND a speartip; a far greater moment arm than what it will actually have to bear.
It allows for Inika Pauldrons to be used much more cleanly as chest armor. When attached off of a flat technic liftarm to the torso, the Inika chestplate contours beautifully with the natural Metru back mold, almost as if they were made for eachother. This construction is probably the most natural way I’ve found to use the Inika shoulder armor as a chestplate. Speaking of the chest…
It emphasizes the chest more than a base Metru build. The neck and shoulder connection points are relatively further away from the back of the torso than the front, allowing for a blockier, stronger look. This look goes a long way to making a bruiser type character look more muscular.
Finally, this is an interesting building technique. My favorite thing with Lego is when a MoC uses a piece in a way that makes you go “huh, that’s cool, I would’ve never thought to try that.” Stuff like Matoro Mahri’s neck, Kongu Mahri’s shoulders, Kiina’s torso; all look like what they’re supposed to while still being creative.
And that’s my final point; this design is both creative and uses the Metru build in a unique way. The proportions are all right, as this is a Metru build. The gearbox is intact, as this is a Metru build. Even the Metru Pelvis is used.
I feel that this torso design doesn’t break any rules while still staying true to the Metru aesthetic, but our judges may not. So, I’d like to hear if they would DQ this.
Also, even if they do DQ it,
@FuzzMuffins, you may want to look into using my method of attaching Inika shoulderpads to your entry’s shoulders, I feel this would fit your concept wonderfully!
TTV has already stated its a no anyways, I just feel like its worth a fair defense. I haven’t seen anyone give me a solid reason besides “this is black and white so X” in the world of Bionicle where there is a lot of greyzone, and we see individual’s demonstrate their own perspectives and opinions on complex matters. I’m not gonna push it anymore because this is all a battle of interpretations, and TTV has already stated theirs
Correct, but the use of them beyond Makuta is slim to none, save for the poor souls forced to use new masks on Karzahni’s island.
I see no sources saying it was ever “looser”. The only case of anyone “loosening” the rules was Helryx, who stated the code was created shortly after her, and she only broke the rules because she felt she needed to–but she was the exception, not the example.
They were chosen by Makuta to be special forces, and back then, that was considered an honor. I can see them in some way honoring a Makuta perhaps in far ancient times, but despite the fact that this was an honor to guard the Brotherhood, it still maintained that Toa steer clear of immoral kanohi. They would be far more likely to honor a Makuta wearing a non-immoral mask, if any existed. As for the argument of them being more open minded, again, they were chosen by beings considered sovereign and on the right side back then. Not much thinking goes into getting chosen by royalty to be a royal guard.
That still doesn’t address whether or not wearing a symbol is something a Toa would equate to a power itself, which is the whole issue of conversation I see being repeated. It doesn’t really seem like the two perspectives on this are ever really confronting what they feel is the true reasons behind it, so its just best to concede to the people that run it and leave it at that
Good thinking, thanks! that really helps to smooth the ‘point’ on the back of the torso piece. I’ll give it a shot, but I suspect that’ll make the shoulders too bulky (at least for contest purposes). Might keep it in mind for other MOCs though
I will concede that it did develop over time, but this development would have had to happen many years before the battles with the Brotherhood, not just before the Hagah rebelling against them. It would not make sense to have the Toa Code not mention the immoral masks in this timeframe of the Hagah being recruited through their rebellion.
Your linked Greg quote: No, it developed over time, as the Toa realized that their success depended on having the trust and respect of the Matoran, not their fear.
that really helps to smooth the ‘point’ on the back of the torso piece. I’ll give it a shot, but I suspect that’ll make the shoulders too bulky (at least for contest purposes). Might keep it in mind for other MOCs though