Immoral is immoral, even powerless.
@Willess12
I mean,
If a Hagah wore an immoral mask, I’d just imagine that there was once was hero who wore that mask
I don’t know about that. If wearing a particular powerless slab of metal is bad, why would they ever wear them?
There’s nothing in canon saying that there couldn’t have been a hero who wore an immoral mask.
The only Matoran we’ve seen with immoral Masks are those sent to Karzahni.
We don’t know any matoran wearing them either so your point kinda falls flat… the only instance I can think of is the Makutas shadow matoran but those are totally an exception in this case as they never originally wore them.
Untrue. We’ve seen matoran wearing the mask of scavenging, aging, undeath, incomprehension, and more.
@Racie02 does bring up a fair point though. Most of the matoran seen wearing immoral masks were from Karzahni (The others were allied with the makuta). This seems to imply that immoral masks do have a negative connotation tied to them, even when they’re powerless.
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Oh mines been done for months and I’ve posted it before. The shoulders and chest were also the reason I inquired about whether or not multiple components can make up a given area. Still hoping for clarity on that rule. I’m fairly certain there will be some leeway on that though.
The entire active Bionicle story we know takes place in less than a year. The history of the Bionicle story takes place over tens of thousands of years. Judging off of that rate alone, it seems nearly impossible and improbable to imagine that this is a rare case. And it doesn’t even have to be a Toa specifically. Not every race outside of the Matoran species is inherently evil, even if they don’t adhere to the exact same principles.
Also any mask you choose creates an unknown hero. You don’t get to choose who the mask you decide to use is based off of either, moral or not.
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Just finished reading these guidelines, and I have to say I am very disappointed with this approach.
Firstly, you (TTV Group) ask us, as a community, how the contest should continue forward. And we, as a community, clearly voice our opinion: Toa Hagah Canon Contest Format Feedback
Then you go and dictate that this contest shall be run exact opposite to what the vast majority requested out of “your belief”?!
Do you not have faith in the community as a whole? We chose a great Helryx and what I believe is a perfect Artahka! We as a community, do know what we want!
Secondly, in the previous contests, I strongly believe they were structured extremely well as they accommodated the vast majority of creativity in the Bionicle community to a reasonable point where we all could compromise to a great degree. And this seems like you are trying to reinvent the wheel.
The possibility of not getting four Hagah models is disappointing, frustrating and even scary for some people because that can be the best part of these contests, as there’s something new to discover, build and learn from, and the poll put forth before, shows this!
If running four contests at once is too stressful, pull a “Hasbro”, and split up the Hagah throughout the extensive list of characters, keep these contests fresh, get excited to finish the team, and reinvigorate people participating after some less impactful character contests. Plus it allows you to adjust accordingly for problems that occur.
Anyway, that’s my thoughts.
The strictness on the ruleset really is just for the Hagah. Not all of the contests moving after this will be as strict. Its only because so many people want to break very clearly established canon that there were those levels of rules put in place
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I imagine that TTV tried to look at it from a completely non-biased perspective. A majority of bionicle fans are probably either moccists or artists, with no that many people being both. Maybe people were voting for whichever gives them the highest chance of winning, as opposed to the option that includes the most people. IDK, just a possibility.
If it’ll make you feel any better, the Hagah build is simple enough that even if a piece of artwork does win, it’ll probably be pretty easy to reverse engineer.
I do agree with this. It won’t be very enjoyable to see a bunch of similar metru builds for, like, 1-2 months. To keep it from getting boring, the list could be modified to look like this:
Pouks
Toa Tuyet
Lariska
Kualus
Toa Orde
Toa Zaria
Gaaki
Toa Chiara
Toa Nidhiki
Bomonga
Toa Varian
Gold Skinned Being
Group shot artwork
Marendar
Kabrua
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I don’t just mean the story scenes we’ve seen. We’ve never heard a reference to, or mention of, a hero wearing an immoral mask, unless there was an explanation.
Not necessarily. They could be honoring a known hero with an unknown mask.
My point is that it creates a question of why a hero, known or unknown, would wear that mask. It creates a problem of someone wearing an immoral mask with no explanation, which we’ve never had, and it can’t be solved unless Greg were to come up with a new story explaining why this hero wore an immoral mask.
No, this is a moc contest and not a moc contest+your desired lore for the hero of X kanohi.
And even if it were immoral, I fail to see why it requires an explanation. They were considered a hero just like the others. We have no explanation of Iruini or Norik’s influences, we just know that they were considered heroes so the mask is simply an icon.
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That’s… my point? No entry establishes lore, it just establishes that a hero had a mask. But when a hero had an immoral mask with no explanation, it creates a problem.
And we don’t need one, because they wear moral masks.
Think of it this way:
If I told you my favorite hero wielded a magic tool that allowed them to see through things, or run fast, you wouldn’t question it.
If I told you my hero had a weapon that allowed them to drain people’s morality, or cause them to literally wither away and rot of old age, or risks breaking the timeline anytime they use it, you would rightfully have a few questions, because that’s not generally something a ‘hero’ has, because heroes are generally “moral”.
Can there be a reason? Yes. We’ve seen it with Matoro. But it needs an explanation, and giving a Hagah an immoral mask creates a “Hero who wore an immoral mask for no known reason.” problem.
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Why? Can’t it be enough to just acknowledge that the contest implies “there’s a reason”?
From that perspective, a custom mask also creates a “mask with no known power” problem.
I agree that there would have to be a specific reason for a hero to wear an immoral mask, just like how every mask has to be associated with a power.
But, also like the mask powers, this contest doesn’t have to give it to us.
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I mean really only if you make it a problem. It doesn’t have to be unless you just insist. I don’t recall instances of Toa insisting on discrimination against any individuals or masks that aren’t exactly in line with them. I have however, seen them capable of honoring and respecting others.
At the end of the day this point is hardly worth discussing (here at least) as much as I think its actually worth doing so. The TTV team has already stated they aren’t really open minded to it happening, so thats pretty much that. Best to move on to something that’d actually get somewhere and just disagree with each other
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How is allowing both art and MOCs the opposite? Wouldn’t the opposite be only doing art?
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Not really. We’ve seen many masks in the comics with no known power, so that doesn’t need an explanation. Everyone who wore an immoral mask has an explanation, on the other hand.
I’m not saying they would.
I’m saying it’s highly unlikely they would consider someone a “hero” if they wore an immoral mask.
Oh, I know.
Honestly, I agree with the sentiment that immoral masks should be allowed. I’m simply trying to explain the case against them.
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You say that having immoral masks raises a lot of questions, but custom masks raises even more questions.
Which hero wore it? And more importantly, what mask power does it have?
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And I’m saying that I don’t think a being/Toa’s sum total existence would be surmised to a Kanohi they wear. That’s honestly quite a disrespectful thought process.
Toa 1: “Remember how Toa ____ saved the city from that rahkshi horde? All of the matoran were saved!”
Toa 2: “Yeah… but wasn’t he wearing a ____?”
Toa 1: “Yeah you’re right, screw that guy. His noble actions are completely negated now because of that fact, and his memory should hold no honor.”
I understand, I disagree.
Anyways I’m dropping it here.
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Sorry, wrong choice of words.
“totally different” is what I was implying.
I mean, that’s a question raised by any mask, unless it’s character-specific like Lhikan’s Hau.
could be any of the 22 masks with no known shape.
You’re confusing the cause with the effect.
I’m not saying they wouldn’t honor someone with an immoral mask
I’m saying that someone they would honor (probably) wouldn’t wear an immoral mask
Fair, I’ve got stuff to do anyway, so I should leave it here too.