Unconfirmed Phantom Images

This seems important:

https://www.reddit.com/user/CaseyKinseyArt/comments/jjeplp/my_original_submission_for_the_bionicle_dark/

https://www.reddit.com/user/CaseyKinseyArt/comments/jjffvn/actual_bionicle_build_of_phantom/

Until the letter from Greg is found, it is possible that this is a hoax, but it seems legit.

If it’s real, what happens? Do these images get hosted on BS01 straight away, or do they need to be officially canonized?

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Sounds like a question for Greg. Or the TTV mods. Or the BS01 mods. Or all 3. Either way, if this is legit, I’m happy to see it!

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https://www.reddit.com/user/CaseyKinseyArt/comments/jjg9l6/winning_letters_and_books_signed_by_greg_farshtey/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

It’s canon. The dude has proof. This is Phantom.

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Whelp, someone call Greg.

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I hate to be this guy, but I didn’t see a Dark Hunter letter.

I saw two Rahi letters, and a Search For The Seventh Toa letter, but no Dark Hunter letter.

He does have the book though.

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I believe those letters are for the Furnace Salamander, which was built by the same guy. More importantly, this guy got a signed DH book–wasn’t that one of the prizes for winning that contest?

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Yeah it was. I, and most people, would consider that to be pretty conclusive evidence.

But again, devil’s advocate, since I know there will be someone who tries to block this, since a lot of people seem to have this anti-change mentality:
There is no official correspondence, with the winner’s name, associated with the Dark Hunter contest.

Again, I am not actually making this argument, but preparing for those who will.

Also, what were the rules for the contest? Did winning automatically canonize your MOC, or did the winning MOCs get officially approved later?

In the case of the latter, then this may not technically be canon, but I can’t imagine it would be to hard to get Greg to canonize it, since that should have been done 15 years ago.

It’s already canon, since it was supposed to get in the book but only couldn’t due to a technicality, and the character himself has been canonized, model or none. We even have a description that fits the model.

And let’s say it is bogus. Why the hell would this guy, who already has the clout of having won a contest (the Rahi contest), fake winning a second contest right as he comes out and reveals he created the Furnace Salamander? That’s a lot of trouble to go through just to earn slightly more bragging rights.

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Then why isn’t it on BS01?

It’s a rhetorical question with an obvious answer: because there was a postage error and the official photo never got taken, then the original photos disappeared. But at what point in the contest does it become canon? When it wins? When the official picture gets taken? When the book gets published?

I honestly don’t know, but this model never went through those last two steps.

And just because the character is canonized doesn’t mean the appearance is.

And the character description resembling the model doesn’t mean anything. If the model was not canonized, then it was merely ‘inspiration’ for the official appearance. (Now where have I heard that before?..)

At the end of the day, this absolutely should be canon if it isn’t already.

Exactly. And the Seventh Toa thing.

According to bs01, the winner’s name is mentioned in the updated Bionicle encyclopedia

Edit: misread it, says nothing about the winner’s name in neither bs01 or the encyclopedia.

Alright I don’t know what you’re trying to pull with this devil’s advocate stuff. You’re making up a bunch of crap. You write paragraphs about how it should be canon on my reddit post and Casey’s reddit post, yet you write a few concise and deceptive lines about how it could be a fake and how the images are unconfirmed. It’s honestly a bit disrespectful. This guy Casey messaged me about the salamander. he mentioned the DH contest just because he had seen my DH recreations most likely. Him having the model semi-intact makes sense. He preserved the SIGNED BOOKS and SIGNED WINNING LETTERS to 3 MAJOR contests. The DH and Rahi contests are the biggest bionicle contests from G1 when it comes to publicity imo. He even framed his old pics of salamander, based on the images. He provided images that he attempted to send in to lego for the magazine. I wonder if he has a copy of his essay somewhere. There is NO WAY this is not canon. BS01 = a canon wiki. Canon =/= BS01’s info. BS01 means absolutely nothing when it comes to things greg did. You ignored my mention of the yari, a model which lego didn’t photograph and still isn’t canon. Greg mentioned phantom, despite not having an officical photo he could use. A photo doesn’t make something canon. It’s like someone saying that a mummy isn’t real just because the ancient Egyptians didn’t have cameras.

I hope I don’t sound too rude, but the way you’re addressing Phantom’s images on TTV is in a far more shifty way than on reddit.

  • LegoDetective
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I–dude, this is brand-friggin-new information, of course BS01 doesn’t have the image up yet. And the conditions of the contest were clear: winning gets the submission canonized. It’d be in the book were it not for the creator’s own flub.

This devil’s advocate stuff is only serving to muddy the waters without any real need. This model was literally the basis for this character. There’s no reason to debate this.

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I checked the book. None of the Dark Hunters have the winners’ names on them.

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The winning names were mentioned in the other medias. The reason Casey’s name wasn’t mentioned was because he created the canon model, not the character. That’s my best guess. If you look at the letters and signed books you can see how the ship ment date for models was far off away from the writing date of the letter.

didn’t let me write this (ship ment) as one word because then it looked like ■■■■■■■■ idk why

THIS ENDS THE DEBATE

https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page273#post10882-line13,18

Greg confirms that there are photos, but they haven’t been posted online. as such, greg must’ve seen the photos from casey. Done. Argument over. It’s canon, since greg wasn’t allowed to share the photos originally taken by the creator.

Don’t double post. -Eljay

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I will concede that I was a bit out of line to suggest that this could be faked. I was making the arguments from the perspective of someone who would not want this canonized, for some reason, but I let myself get sucked in a bit too far. I should have let those arguments come up naturally. I apologize for that.

I want to make it clear that I would am not trying to call the legitimacy of these images and their backstory into question, and I regret any comments I made that suggested otherwise.

Of course I would like this to be canonized. Even if some technicality of the contest prevents this from being current canon, I would do whatever is necessary to get this canonized.

However, I also want to ensure that it passes through the same channels as all of the other Dark Hunters. If it has already done so back in 2004 (2005?), then great. It’s canon. If it has not yet done so, then I want to make sure it does so now.

Was it? I am not trying to be difficult here, I actually don’t know.

Was it that the winners became canon, or was it that they would be featured in the Dark Hunters book, therefore making them canon?

Because if it was the latter, then this model was not featured in the book, so it is not canon, even though it deserves to be.

EDIT: The rules were that the winner would be featured in the Dark Hunter book, not that they would become canon. Of course, since the Dark Hunter book is canon, this means that the models would become canon too.

But there is that important intermediate step of being in the book. This Phantom model did not appear in the book, so it is not currently canon.

BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I say that Phantom is not canon, not in a “sucks to be you” sense, but in a “you got ripped off, let’s fix that” sense.

Even if it is no longer possible for the model to be featured in the book, the creator should still get the “secondary” prize of his model becoming canon.

It was cut from the book because the model didn’t make it. The book was made in 2006, as it featured piraka, so it had been too long of a time that the image was gone and the model couldn’t have been shipped.

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I know why it wasn’t in the book. I am arguing that it should have been in the book, since that is the only argument for it becoming canon.

If we say that it shouldn’t have been in the book, because “sucks to be you for missing the deadline”, or something, then that also means it shouldn’t be canon.

But of course, it should have been in the book, and therefore should have been canonized.

There is nothing in the rules saying that it has to be canonized today, but it seems only fair that it gets canonized.

And come on. You and I, and everyone else, know that this should be canon. The only sticking point is whether it is already canon, or if it has to be run through Greg first.

Phantom got into the Encyclopedia, which makes him canon. Greg’s description of him was based on Casey’s entry. Ergo, since Casey’s character was written into canon, the model follows, bureaucratic nonsense or not.

No, it means it shouldn’t have been in the book. Canon exists beyond this one book, so the book is not the be-all-end-all of canon.

Then there is no reason to continue. Again, you’ve only muddled things with your statement. If nothing else, Phantom’s model should be put under BS01’s trivia section for his respective article.

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tunnel stalker is canon. Legit the same thing with this, except that phantom appeared 15 years later and tunnel stalker appeared about a month after. Deadlines missed for book, still canon.

" * The Tunnel Stalker was made by former admin [Pekel]. Although it did not appear in the *[Rahi Beasts] guide, [Greg Farshtey] included the Tunnel Stalker in the *[BIONICLE: Encyclopedia] at Pekel’s request."

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The Helryx’s official appearance is based on a MOC, but that doesn’t mean the MOC is official. And Greg’s description doesn’t convey as much as the MOC would, if it were official.

Yes, but it is the only book that even had a shot at portraying Phantom’s official appearance.

Absolutely, yes. Whether or not it becomes his canon appearance, it still won the “Phantom Contest” Dark Hunter contest

@LegoDetective

Huh. I did not know that. That just gives even more reason for this model to be canonized.

Did the Tunnel Stalker have to pass through any additional hoops as a result of missing the deadline? Where can I read more about the technicalities behind this?

EDIT: I did some research on the Tunnel Stalker, and it comes down to this: it was not included in the Rahi book, so it was not canon. But then, Greg later included it in the Encyclopedia (at the request of the builder), which is what makes it canon, not the fact that it won the contest.

So that’s what we need to happen here: Phantom’s appearance needs to be included in another canon piece of media. Given the current state of Bionicle, the only new official media that we can get is The Word Of Greg.

So let’s make it happen.