BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

That’s true, I suppose.

Though it can also make it harder, if you don’t know what topic it’s in. For example, during all the discussion about the Hagah, I’d often have to go through two or three topics before I found the quote I was looking for, because I didn’t know which of the similar topics it was in.

If there’s going to be a second topic, it should be at an important point in the contests in general. Perhaps a new “Second List Discussion Topic”, if/when we get there.


Or maybe a new topic after tuyet’s contest finishes, and perhaps discourage discussion about post-tuyet contests until after this one, just so pertinent discussions can be had on the new topic.


No one has to read them to participate in the contests, it’s only if they wish to offer input/feedback.

We can consider it, but a new topic isn’t in the cards for the time being.


It would make sense to make a new topic when we get to the 2nd list, though.

Why would it?

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As someone largely involved in this topic, I feel keeping everything in one topic (unless it gets too big for the message boards*) makes things easier, since you can just use the search feature to find stuff. The only separate topic I would say we need is for a compendium of relevant Greg Quotes, like what we have for Tuyet.

*and at the rate we’re going, of about 2500 posts per contest, we should hit 30000 posts (the number that shut down the Bionicle 2016 topic) right around the last contest of this list.

In terms of making specific discussion easier to find, perhaps the posts where you ask questions that generate discussion could be linked to in the OP? For example:

Discussion about Tuyet’s sword, Nui Stone, and re-entering old contest entries: post 6918
Discussion about separating entries by Prime Tuyet, DM Tuyet, or both: post 7945

Both posts have an amount of relevant discussion afterward, plus several direct replies.

As for having a separate topic for list 2, I do think it would be a good idea. For one, this topic may hit 30000 posts by then. Two, if someone’s looking for a post/discussion about one of the list 2 characters, they don’t have to search through all the posts about the list one characters (since the search function starts with the earliest posts).


It’s possible to sort by Latest Post.

So another piece of Nidhiki lore, he wasn’t on Lhikan’s 2nd team (before the Mangai):

  1. How long had Lhikan and Nidikhi known each other before they were called to Metru Nui to fight the Kanohi Dragon?
  1. There’s no evidence they knew each other at all prior to that, I don’t think."*
    Greg also said this about the armor, but it’s a Probably answer:
    *"4. Was Nidikhi’s armor like Lhikan’s (you know, Toa Metru-like)?
  1. Probably"* Official Greg Discussion | Page 238

Probably not, also, i was reading Birth Of A Dark Hunter and i saw that Nidhiki was described to have scarred and pitted Emerald armor from countless battles. Sort of like Helryx on her Mask of Psychometry, here’s a great example from Bukkey.


Yeah I absolutely love that kind of damage, turning it up on my renders of MOCs. Here’s an example on a Nidhiki render:

As for the armor, I personally go for a Metru meets Krakua with a unique look.
(I know this is dual colored, I’ll explain why my position changed in the full MOC page)

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This is extremely vague on multiple levels. As you mentioned, the answer was “probably”.

But even if Greg gave a definite “yes”, would would it even mean for Nidhiki’s armour to be “like” Lhikan’s? A colour-swapped clone build? Similar shaping? Reuse of some parts but not others?

This is basically just a more-specific version of the discussion about this quote:


The more I prototype a Nidhiki for this contest, the more I appreciate the open-endedness of the quotes. Like I’m a fan of the Metru torso, but having custom arm attachment points that don’t strain the parts is honestly great.
As for what parts it refers to, my interpretation is the overlayed armor, like the shoulders and feet. However the quotes could mean anything since its open ends so you could have like the Metru feet and still say the quotes valid

Also side note, for Tuyet, if we decide to have the BB included what do you guys think of having a sword contest with the mask? That way a design could set theirs as a placeholder, instead of being disqualified for not having one. Of course the consent rules would be the same for the sword and mask.

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@Willess12 basically summed up what my reasoning is.

Yeah, I’d like to see more freedom of art interference into canonized MOC. Let’s say that you’ve created almost perferct interpretation of some character but you’ve used black armor instead of metalic or gold because you don’t have any. Or you hadn’t a good idea for weapon.

But why treat it like a problem, when single art can recolor wrong parts and add a new one to play a role of sword.
If a MOC contest would define only a shape of character itself, leaving coloring and equipping to art authors, we can get creations much greater than in previous contests :slight_smile:


I think this is a little extreme.

The mask is art-decided because it has to be a new shape, and TTV doesn’t want to mandate custom parts. The sword, however, can be built with standard parts, just like Helryx or Artakha’s weapon. Why should the rules be any different than for those contests?

At most, perhaps there could be a Hagah-style consent system, but MOCists should definitely have the opportunity to design the sword themselves.


I do agree that it sucks not having most piece I want to use IRL or in STUD.IO. The only thing about having the character being colored later means we’d have to make an updated version with the right colors. This might become a divisive post though so be prepared for the responses

I agree with that idea, as it would suck if someone spent a crud ton of time making a sword just to get it tossed out because there was no option to keep it. The reason I brought this up is because I’ve seen a decent chunk of people struggle to come up with a new BB design or one that isn’t too similar to the ones we have. This way people could submit a Tuyet without the sword or a placeholder and we’d still get a BB in the end. Now should this be used on Lariska or Varian? No, their weapons are either simple daggers or blades attached to the arms, making it difficult to change without ruining the MOC. But Tuyet, Nidhiki and the YQT? It allows us to still get the character and gear canonized, while allowing for people who might only have the weapon design or Toa design to still enter.

Also, the fact is a Toa’s tool is almost as important as their mask. We didn’t 100+ posts and arguments over a sword for it to not matter. Having the ability to decide the most fitting weapon (if the creator of the winning MOC consents) for a character makes just as much sense as having the ability to decide on the most fitting mask design. It doesn’t even take extra time, as you can run the weapon and mask contest at the same time, then canonized both in the art.


I’m not sure about that one. Like, the mocs entered are a single artists vision of the character. The more freedom you give to the artists, that’s less of the original moc’s vision coming through. Theres a strong chance both artists will clash, the artistic vision will become muddled, and the end product will suffer.

Like, the biggest example we have is Artakha. The original mocist designed Artakha with KhingK’s MoC in mind; the flow of the mask works well with the flow of the model. The canon MoC from the artwork got some flak for not fitting the design language of the original MoC; the artist had to change the stylization of the MoC in the artwork so get the mask to fit with the design. Both the moc and the mask are outstanding on their own, but they do clash quite a bit. Now, in Artakha’s case, this was almost unavoidable; Artakha needed a 3D printed Kanohi, so the art portion was necessary; allowing artists to decide the shape of all 3D printed parts is a great way imo to give artists freedom while ensuring that we are not canonizing a “third party” 3D printed piece into Lego’s story.

And then again, we’ve had plenty of good things come from the art; the general consensus I’ve seen is that people like the look of Gaaki’s and Helryx’ masks. At the end of the day though, giving the art portion more freedom detracts from the original mocist’s intent.

I feel allowing artists to change stuff outside of 3D printed parts is a good idea if there’s something to be gained from it. Like the Hagah for instance. There was a great desire in the community for the final Hagah to have metallic color parity, no repeat Kanohi, and no repeat speartips. So, the consent system was created for the Hagah, allowing artists to change only the parts of the moc deemed variable by the original creators.

What does giving artists the freedom to change the BB add to Tuyet (if the moc’s sword isn’t 3D printed ofc)?

I think we gotta have a stronger reason to do this other than ‘it’s gonna be tricky for some people to make a BB’. That’s kinda ridiculous imo. Like, yeah, it is gonna be a puzzler. It’s also gonna be tricky to moc a unique torso, or give a consistent texture to the moc, or any other part of the design. Tough luck, you know? That’s a part of the unique design challenge brought to us with Tuyet.

If we allowed all of the difficult parts of the contest to be decided in art, why not just get rid of the moc portion? Imo we shouldn’t be have a situation where a moc wins because “oh, it might possibly be fixed in the future in the art portion.” That adds too much variability, the moc should stand on its own.

If we really need a compromise for this, I’d be fine with using the consent system again, but I really think we should try and limit a situation where a character is designed by two separate artists.


Oh I didn’t mean this, if you were referencing me as well.

I think that the final art should reflect the MOC it’s based on and that there should only be one design. I do think however that the mask and weapon are equally as important as each other, to the point that both should have a chance to be decided if the MOCist allows it. If not, the the model keeps whatever the creator didn’t consent to be changed. I do agree that we shouldn’t make the contests easy. Choosing to allow the option for a weapon to be a placeholder isn’t doing anything different from the mask though. Technically every entrant could make a custom Mask of Intangiblity but some people either like other designs or just aren’t skilled enough to do so. Why not the same system with the weapon?

Now just to clarify I’m not saying allow people to use other people’s designs without their permission, it would be the same deal as the masks. You’d be saying that your weapon could be allowed on other models or if it was only for your specific MOC. 3D files would have to be accesible, you get the picture.


Ah, I see what you mean now! Yeah, I definitely could see a consent system working for the weapon alongside the Kanohi, since the consent is given by the mocist. On the flip side though, how would you feel about giving a consent to mocists to lock a 3D printed mask as the mask used for the character? This way we could avoid a situation like Artakha’s if a mocist chose a specific custom Kanohi for their model.

Also, a minor unrelated question, how are we going to handle a situation if a Tuyet with no weapon wins the moc portion? I assume the artist would be forced to leave Tuyet weaponless, yes?


So for the first part, yes if the MOCist says they want a certain mask for the character, then you’d be voting for that character and mask. Same with the stating the weapon isn’t allowed to be changed.

As for the weaponless, I would tend to agree as long as they made the distinction that they want her not to have a weapon, rather than have none because they didn’t have a design. The artist as you said would also have to leave Tuyet weaponless, as it would be creating something that didn’t exist and violating the MOCists wishes.

Now the Nui Stone is a whole other can of worms that I’m not sure I want to open right now. However if it was up to me, I’d do the same rule as the mask or weapon, with a consent system. However because it’s used by her in story, I would say it has to be mandated in the art. It’d be like Nidhiki not having his Scythe. CLARIFICATION: I mean if the MOCist includes it and says it can’t be changed, it stays that way in the art. Otherwise an artist can come up with their own design, as long as the winning MOC said ok to changing the design/adding a Nui Stone if they didn’t have one to the finished art.

This might make some people mad but honestly it’s the best solution. This allows for people to vote on what they want and gives both sides of the Barbed Broadsword argument a fair chance to win.

Also no other weapon, since she was only stated to have the Nui Stone in her Main Universe appearances. “But that means she should have the Barbed Broadsword” No it just means we dont know what she has and we aren’t canonizing new weapons just because, therefore we let people vote. Whatever they decide is canon, end of story.

Side note, this back and forth is literally getting us nowhere as the contest is less than a month away and neither side has presented definitive evidence that it does or doesn’t exist in the main universe. Let’s stop arguing and instead focus on making our MOCs the best they can be. You want Tuyet to have a Barbed Broadsword? Great go make a MOC of it or vote for it when the time comes. Same with evil vs good Tuyet. Make a model or vote.

In the end, I wish both sides luck, as hopefully whatever model and equipment that ends up winning manages to make some people happy.
(Sorry for the wall of text)

Adding this to the bottom for the future discussion that will go on, I will respond probably in a few hours so hopefully I won’t miss the bulk of the discussion.