As cool as the thornax sword design is, it looks like it’s stressing the pieces a bit. The launcher fingers are being extended half a bushing apart each from where they’re supposed to rest. There are lots of ways you could do barbs. Spamming minifig hands on a rigid hose, spamming posing stands on a half-liftarm or tile, spamming pirate epaulettes on a technic axle and then trapping them, etc.
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Now we can see “no other way” is not correct, but this is the reason.
Thornax launcher is very soft and tough, because they had be made so! 
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I think if anything the question “Does Lariska have a rhotuka launcher?” should be asked before the contest. Because Greg has shown a precedence of not canonizing details just the whole. Because of this asking him to clarify if it is a rhotuka after the fact will still just be backdoor canonizing the weapon.
The best compromise I can see is allow rhotuka launcher but let people who want her to have one headcanon it afterwards. There is no basis for its inclusion and allowing people to ask for it to be canonized will just lead to backdoor canonization of a weapon.
If that was anything like what you actually proposed then please correct me on that.
as for the other stuff:
My point has never been you can’t use the piece. It just shouldn’t be able to perform its intended purpose unless there is canon backing to it for the character in question.
It could see answer for question 1.
Its probably possible but I and noone else is trying to get a mandate against it. I personally don’t believe that it should be restricted however I just don’t want backdoor canonizations.
The one compromise I can see for is what I wrote above. It can be included but unless Greg canonize it as a rhotuka launcher the moment he sees the model it shouldn’t be allowed afterwards to be canonized as it. For all intents and purposes Lariska having a rhotuka launcher is a headcanon and should remain as such even after the contest.
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Including the launcher, even without the ammo, in the winning physical model for Lariska does not canonize that she has that power/weapon. Most importantly, the winning artwork does not have to acknowledge the inclusion of the launcher. Just because the toy can do something doesn’t mean the in-universe character can.
For instance, on pretty much every set with articulated elbows, the character can bend his/her arm backwards. That doesn’t mean they can do so in-universe, only that they toy lets you do that.
Asking Greg beforehand only removes the opportunity for variation in submissions and provides us with a detail that was never necessary or particularly contentious. Rider’s arm design should be allowed (not saying that you’re arguing it shouldn’t, since you say to compromise and let it go through), and the Rhotuka should just not be acknowledged in the submission photo or the art submissions.
These contests only decide how the characters look, not what they can do or what tools they own. Just because Lariska’s arm looks like it has a launcher doesn’t mean that she actually has one, no more than Mr. Fantastic has a real gun on his person just because he carries a wooden gun. In this specific instance, backdoor canonizations are not on the table, and any policies pertaining to the inclusion of the launcher or any similar play functions should be made with that in mind.
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Big agree with this, and it got me thinking: really, all canonizations made in this contest are backdoor. We can’t just rule against backdoor canonizations because there’s no line to draw there. What’s a backdoor canonization and what’s a consequence of giving these characters physical appearances? Sure, a rhotuka launcher is clear-cut, but what about the shape of Lariska’s daggers? Or whether she’s plantigrade or digitigrade? Just something to think about.
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No.
We may as well ask him “is lariska’s head piece the slizer Turbo’s head piece?”. It’s just locking in an idea that only some mocs were ever going to use. If, for some reason, Greg hops in and decides to volunteer “you know, I always pictured Lariska as having a rhotuka launcher”, like what he did with TYQ toa, then sure, but let’s not present him the details we like/dislike/want to use/want to never be used in order to lock it in for everyone else.
There’s a definite side of “this is a canon contest, not a creativity contest”, but, like, realistically…if Lego released a Lariska set, she’d have some extra stuff that was never explicitly stated to be in canon as well. Probably a launcher of some kind. Even just allowing the moc to hint towards additional stuff like a launcher is just giving the moccist a tool a lego designer would have.
(I do, however, personally still think we should give Greg a list of characters/what we know about them, and basically say “if there’s anything else we should know/you want to volunteer about any of these characters, speak now or forever hold your peace”, but that’s a bit of an unreasonable perspective I personally hold).
Personally, I was extremely upset when we backdoor canonized the fact that Gaaki had piraka shins. Truly no basis in canon for that one.
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I feel like this is a very good point. It turns the possibility of an off chance rhotuka winner to a mandatory everyone has to implement a rhotuka.
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well we know for sure that Varian has a rhotuka
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I would say the difference lies in equipment. Mostly because that has been the thing that Greg has for the most part given us info on equipment and/or masks either through his own writting or questions asked to him.
Also Equipment is more so an extension of the character than anything else. What equipment a character has at their disposale has more narrative conflicting implications than say a feature of a characters torso. However that is only my two cents.
That completely depends on what era of Bionicle you are looking at though. Not saying you are wrong but pre-05 launchers was never a standard for all characters. 04 had almost all sets carry launchers but it wasn’t as launcher intensive as 05. However for Lariska its also worth to consider the other DHs and in that case not even a 4th of them has a rhotuka so maybe rhotuka isn’t as common with them. Alot of them have ranged weapons but if we look at how Lariska fights both in boadh and time trap she seems quite content with just throwing daggers and dodge things athleticly
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Fair, I was too specific, let me expand out so that my point is more clear.
Lego would have added additional stuff as a play function, or just for aesthetics. For most of bionicle’s run, that extra stuff may have been a launcher or something, but it could also be gear a gear function. Or, to give extremely random examples based on what my brain remembers as I’m typing:
- Sidorak’s sword being extendable
- The Bahrag’s extendable neck
- the swing-out Midak Skyblasters on the Axalara
- the light up Inika swords
- Tuyet’s detatchable lower torso
Obviously, this is so vague that I’m probably not being super clear what I’m referring to, but, basically…I’d have to imagine that if Lariska was released as a set, she wouldn’t by default just be a buildable action figure. She’d probably have some kind of play feature built-in, and that play feature may not be explicitly referenced in canon. Something like a rhotuka launcher is a good example of what that could be.
I’m also saying “play feature” because it’s a semi-specific thing I can point to, but the reality is that a hypothetical lariska set would also have just, like…extra stuff that will never be referenced in canon. Most sets do.
As a hypothetical scenario that might not be true, but you’d still get my point: I’m pretty sure Lewa Phantoka’s shoulder rockets are never mentioned in the books/serials. If Lewa Phantoka never had a set, we had a canonization contest for him, and someone entered the Lewa Phantoka set we all know, his shoulder rockets would be seen as back-door canonization.
This was extremely long-winded, and probably could have been condensed, but I am too tired today to go through and edit lol. Hopefully a point or two made it through.
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I think I’ve gotten your greater point.
but alot of playfeatures are not mentioned in canon but alot of them are visually depicted in visual canon material due to Bionicle’s marketings nature. Have the toys as is appear in their natural environment. As far as I know Bionicle is the only toyline that was so adamant about keeping the toys identical to their canon apperance. This did not always happen most notably in 09 and those cases where Greg based his writting on a prototype or a movie render.
As I said earlier, I believe the difference lies in “appearance” vs. “existence”.
To this point, these contests have been to determine the appearances of things that we already know exist.
Determining the shape of Lariska’s daggers isn’t “backdoor canonization” because it simply determines the appearance of something that we already know exists. Digitigrade Lariska is fine because we are determining the appearance of her legs.
A shield-wielding Tuyet would be “backdoor canonization” because it fabricates the existence of an entirely new weapon that had never been seen, or even referenced, before.
One common example that has been brought up many times before, including by myself, was the Yesterday Quest Toa’s tools (before they were confirmed, of course), with the argument being that, because Greg had never confirmed that they had any specific weapon, no weapons should be allowed, otherwise you would also have to allow not-explicitly-confirmed weapons in other contests, like the aforementioned shield-Tuyet.
The difference, though, is that, unlike Tuyet’s hypothetical shield, the Yesterday Quest Toa’s weapons are known to exist. Any weapons would be allowed because they wouldn’t be implying the existence of any new tools, just the appearances of tools that we already knew existed.
(Of course, this is a moot point now, as the tools have since been confirmed, but the same thinking could still be applied to other contests)
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I agree on this. While the model could have an arm the fires a Rhotuka, the final art shouldn’t show this function, as Lariska was (still looking into this, she has a lot of quotes) not described in story as using a Rhotuka. I don’t think a model should be disqualified though if it has a launcher, as the artist could make the yellow peg and launcher piece into some kind of rivet or metal piece.
Edit: Remembered this quote:
" 34.) Does Lariska have more than two knives?
34) Probably" Official Greg Discussion | Page 111
So Lariska probably has more than 2 daggers and from the research I’ve done so far, I haven’t seen a quote confirming or denying a Rhotuka.
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Quick question: A rhotuka’s power is determined by the users personality. correct? meaning its a power semi excluisive to that person. right?
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Ye, exclusive as far as our sample pool.
There are quotes saying pretty much everything in the GSR can make rhotuka, as long as they have a launcher. Intelligent species have the biggest variety.
Rahi of the same species of low intelligence typically all have the same power.
But with the sheer amount of individuals in the GSR I’d imagine at some point there’d be some overlap
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Also found these, your post reminded me.
" 7) Let’s say if a Visorak fired a spinner at Vakama Hordika. Could Vakama charge that spinner up?
7a) If above is yes, then could he control the spinner?
7) No. Rhotuka spinners are made up of your own personal energy, which is why every character (or in the case of Visorak, breed) has its own power. Vakama can charge up his own spinners with this tools, not those of others.
" Official Greg Discussion | Page 117
“3. Does a Toa Hordika’s Rhotuka spinner always have their elemental power? It seemed that way with the Toa Metru Hordika, but Savage’s Rhotuka paralyzes.
3) No, not necessarily” Official Greg Dialogue | Page 135
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Ok, coolio, was wondering because I kinda found some relevant quotes to the discussion
Quotes
10.Do you know Lariska’s and Triglax’s powers?
10) Lariska’s only power is her agility and her marksmanship, and Triglax I have not bothered to come up with powers for because he has never appeared in the story.
Official Greg Discussion | Page 154
So are you saying that TSO’s eye beam made him that way by chance? surely some resistance or power of Zaktans allowed him to survive the devastating attack. Because TSO didn’t seem to speak lightly of Zaktan and he over saw his training and put in charge of a group of Dark Hunters whos job was to kill Toa.
Neither Zaktan nor TSO have any idea why TSO’s eyebeams affected him that way. If it was a result of some power of Zaktan’s, Zaktan did not know it existed and therefore it hasn’t been mentioned in the story. A DH does not need to necessarily have some special super power to get a position of responsibility in the org. – what’s Lariska’s super power? She doesn’t have one, she is simply a highly trained, very agile and skilled assassin.
Official Greg Discussion | Page 151
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I mean, you could even make the case that Lariska having a rhotuka launcher as part of her robotic arm adds nothing new to canon. Pretty much all beings in the Mata-Nui Universe can create rhotuka.
She just has the ability to do so but decided to never do it in the story, just like a lot of the other characters.
(I’ll admit thats being a bit selective in narrative)
This isn’t quite accurate. We never see other characters use Rhotuka, not because they choose not to, but because they have no mechanism with which to fire them. When Greg says “all characters can create Rhotuka”, you need to add on “as long as they have something with which to fire them”.
With or without a Launcher, Lariska still has the potential to create Rhotuka, but adding a mechanical Launcher gives her the power to actually do so, which is a power that, as proven by @Tarkur , she does not have.
(Of course, the model can still do so as an Easter Egg, but it would be understood that the functionality cannot become canon)
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Yeah thats why I acknowledged it was being selective in the narrative.
But its a skill to use different types of weapons, and not every single person prefers to hone use of a variety of weapons/tools.
People can learn to become an accurate thrower of almost any weapon, but that doesn’t mean everyone spends their time learning to throw their weapons. She may have just gotten the rhotuka as part of the arm and just decided she never had use for it in the story that we know