Biovival Discussion (aka Christian Faber's mysterious project)

Literally no difference, only Lego is able to make Bionicle 2 a thing. It’s a Lego brand and it’s all up to Lego - the company which, as far as I’m aware, Faber hasn’t even spoken with about it yet.

Also I think you’re greatly overestimating how “strong” Faber’s media presence is. Outside of some semi-hardcore Bionicle fan groups nobody knows about this whole Biovival thing, the Lego Ideas Vote had a stronger media presence than whatever Faber’s been doing for the past two years.

Now that isn’t to say that all signs point to Faber working on something Bionicle related - because they do. But y’all need to be realistic. Faber can’t and won’t do anything with the brand (be it bringing it back or making Bionicle 2, whatever that is) without Lego’s approval - the approval which he still hasn’t gotten (and most likely won’t ever get). Expecting otherwise - at this point - is simply delusional and naive.

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You mean only Lego can call it Bionicle 2. There’s a difference.

No I’m not. His media presence is irrelevant if it nets him real-world connections, which as others have pointed out in this topic, it definitely has.

All from two years of pumping out basic concept art and hinting at some form of a return to form. Marketing for any major company would kill for results that low effort.

Yes, he can’t use the terms Toa, Kanohi, Tahu, we get it. But that’s not how a spiritual successor works. You think he’s literally going to name it Bionicle 2 and face the landslide of lawsuits that would cause?

He’s already stated - one of the times he actually stated something, so super rare - that there’d be a name change. Spiritual successors are not sequels, and Bionicle 2 will infringe on no copyrights.

I am being realistic.

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That’s a funny way of spelling “naive” but w/e

I agree that Faber needs to be plain-spoken, but I wish the consoomer fans weren’t so impressionable. If someone were to jingle their keys in front of you, didn’t fulfill their promises about being clear, and then said something similar to “the real Bionicle was the friends we made along the way” after two years, would you ever expect it to amount to anything? I wouldn’t.

I think Faber expected fans to make their own stuff out of inspiration, despite people doing that for years? Idk, this mess was easily avoidable if things had been made clear from the start.

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And your argument is a funny way of spelling skewed, but here we are.

The thing is, we’ve waited two years to hear anything remotely close to that. That’s why people are mad, because either there is something and Faber’s being so stupidly mysterious about it you could drown in the mist, or there’s nothing and it took Faber two years to say “no lol”.

But has he said no? Considering he’s still kicking up the mystery shtick, nobody actually knows the answer. Only that we want the answer.

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Ok, reign it in, guys. Obviously there’s lots of varying opinions on this topic but that doesn’t mean we can’t be civil about this. Just a friendly reminder for everyone here.

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could we just lock this topic down for a while? I feel like most of what could be said about Faber’s recent posts have been said at this point and people are now just spinning their wheels over the same topics over and over again.

I think we all could use a break from this until the next time Faber feels like making another announcement… or until he maybe have some kind of interview with TTV or some other Bionicle/LEGO themed podcast.

I don’t see how that would accomplish anything other than make people who are already miffed even more aggravated. Plus, we don’t know if the next sort of Faber update is right around the corner.

According to Meso, he asked for one and they offered and it went nowhere. That could happen again with his most recent request.

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Yeah even for the modcast, Faber has ghosted folks. Nothing new.

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just got back on a few minutes ago after school and found this

now don’t take too much offense to anything i say as

  • i am a child and my brain has not yet developed so i am idiot
  • i’ve got a pretty good idea of what happened, but i may have something wrong

now with all that out of the way let me say this
mmm yes i have been shot in the foot time to shoot someone completely different

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I

Okay so I’m tired and I don’t currently possess the brainpower to know if you’re making a specific statement here or if you’re creating the funny™

Queue generic Ghid response

image

(this is an irl picture of Joseph Bionicle, creator of Bionicle[and Ninjago])

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(this is an irl picture of the man that sent @Winger into cardiac arrest

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The simple, basic, no-nonsense fact-of-the-matter-at-hand is this:

Faber was the creative director and partner at Advance, one of the largest advertising agencies in Denmark, who worked with Lego and other brands consistently and brought us specifically Bionicle. It’s important to note that he was a Partner, ergo the man knows a thing or two about marketing.

It’s important to note that just being “The guy who came up with Bionicle” doesn’t mean he’ll immediately get a meeting to pitch his product/idea to anyone, because unless you have something more to go along with that, all you have it “20 years ago I did a thing.”

It’s also important to note that Bionicle as a fandom has been not only surviving, but thriving for 20 years, through two different generations. This is, by definition, a captive audience - there is nothing else like Bionicle out there, and it is unlikely there ever will be.

Why do I mention all this? Because it’s important context for why Faber is doing what he’s doing, the way he’s doing it, and why the fandom is generally reacting negatively at this point.

The long and short of it is that Faber needs us, not the other way around. The Bionicle fandom with its’ tens of thousands of potential consumers is a huge resource for anyone trying to pitch a product. “We have an existing fanbase of 10,000+ who’ve been screaming for years that they want this product” is absolutely bonkers. Now, a cynic (or a realist, or even just someone with some experience in the field) would probably say that a huge portion of Faber’s Bionicle-Related content serves the purpose of both inspiring the fandom, and hopefully proving that there is interest for whatever Faber intended to pitch.

This is not exploitation in and of itself, however the vague, cryptic messages from Faber, the allusions to some grand event or new product being produced, etc etc, have led individuals within the fandom to believe that Faber is bringing back Bionicle.

Do those individuals necessarily have a leg to stand on? No. Faber has never offered anything concrete with his intentions. This is a double edged sword.

On the one hand, it’s unfair to expect anything massive like a Bionicle G3 from Faber based solely on concept art. On the other had, it’s also unfair for Faber to, whether intentionally or not, string along his fanbase (whom, i might add, have been constantly asking what he’s working on.)

Ghid is correct when he says Faber is terrible at PR. Sure, you can’t talk specifics about projects before they’re negotiated, but you can usually say “Things are in the works.” You can also confirm the negative, that you do in fact intend solely to inspire people, if that was your intention from the start.

Faber has done none of these things. And his deleted posts and their captions are arguably the worst examples of this.

image
You cannot tell me that those three images together are not intended to be Bionicle, or to hype up the Bionicle fandom.

The caption for the first image (BIO)?
image

The caption for the last image (LE)?
image

Now i admit to not having the middle image screenshotted, but please. Starting a string of images with “A puzzle with Infinite Pieces… joining the process will bring Unity” before ending with “Some Puzzels (sic) are never ment (sic) to be finished.” Is a little bit… odd, no?

My point is simply thus: Does Faber owe the community a delivered product? No. Do the people that believe he does need to check-spectations? Probably.

Does that mean that Faber’s handling of the fandom and it’s very obviously rabid base is beyond criticism? Absolutely not.

Faber has done what every good marketer does - built a fanbase and then tried to, one way or another, leverage them. The danger in doing so is that when you build a fanbase around a product, that fanbase expects that product. Nowhere is this more obvious than with Bionicle and Lego, where just because you’re a fan of Bionicle doesn’t mean you have to love everything Lego puts out, or vice versa.

If you’re going to tease it, especially as one of the progenitors of the entire theme/concept, you have to be prepared for the fact that people are going to assume you’re going to give them more. Faber has been vague from the start on whether or not he’s trying to bring back Bionicle, or just revive interest in the setting and inspire creation.

Literally all he has to do is be 100% up front and clear about his intentions. No one faults him for taking 2 years to get moving on a project, because we all know it takes time to develop and produce things. However, people are absolutely allowed to fault the lack of clarity after 2 years. If his goal is to find a partner to create a new era of Bionicle, he can absolutely say that without jeopardizing any negotiations. He can absolutely tell us “It’s going to be a lengthy process, but my goal is to create the next generation of Bionicle.” He can also tell us “I have no intention of creating a new Bionicle, instead I aim solely to inspire the fans of my previous work.”

A little clarity goes a long way - and defending the lack thereof in a man who’s spent 30+ years in Advertising is kind of like defending a Mechanic who’s been in the business for 30 years and absolutely destroyed your engine after an oil change.

Should the community check their expectations? Absolutely. Should Faber tell us what he’s actually intending with this? Yes.

The community outrage and the feelings of having their excitement exploited in some way or another are absolutely valid. Every content creator knows the risks of vagueposting to your fanbase.

It’s either that or Faber learned absolutely nothing over the course of his career. Which is in its’ own way a disappointing and terrible thought.

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I think he’s saying that just because Eljay has been accused of gaslighting, doesn’t justify throwing the term at a completely different person.

That’s how I understood it, at least; I could be wrong.

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What, twice? In a month?

@Kini_Hawkeye this has got to stop.

…For a product of Faber’s scale, meant as a niche only a specific and blindingly steadfast fanbase will readily gobble up.

Apply this number to any other corporation trying to both sell overseas and establish a brand and you’re looking at a fad. You need much bigger numbers, even if only theoretical, because even 20,000 absolutely sure customers is not nearly as good as 200,000 maybe customers. Hook the 200K maybes. Find ways to draw attention from the demographic. Market research. Field tests.

My gosh I’ve only been employed as a graphic designer for two years and I want to die because I’m forced to know too much I don’t want to consider this constantly aaaaaaaaaaa

Yeah, that’s something I feel a lot of people who found points of contention misunderstood. Faber doesn’t need to tell us literally everything he’s going to be doing ever and show us the behind-the-scenes - over half of that is boring business babble nobody except a select few AFOLs are actually going to inspect with close interest. But he’s gotta tell us what the heck he wants to do. Does he want to make a product? Does he want to make a source of inspiration?

Like I said before, gentlemen, all he has to do is be .01% transparent and he’s in the clear for another two years, even.

Ok, yeah I see it now.

Still, Eljay can be given a little bit of grace in this scenario - once bitten, twice shy. You go through scummy manipulation once, you jump at anything remotely similar. Can’t say I don’t relate in some capacity.

Help I’m going off topic

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He did say his intetion with the project just not the end goal of it but its easy to neglect something like that when you have your head stuck in the dirt.

Again he never stated the end goal, he definately alluded to a want to make something Bionicle related or a spirutal successor but like life you need to be aware that things can change with time. Now Faber was aware of that and was dead set on clarifying that there wasn’t a Bionicle G3 confirmed when he did his stream.

Are fans entitled to be upset? generally yes but if you are upset over something because A. it hasn’t reached your expectations within a certain artifical deadline created by you or B. because you didn’t do the proper research to understand the thing to begin with, then no you don’t get to be upset. Because at that point you are dissappointing yourself or not educated enough in the subject to get the whole picture.

Now was there ways Faber could have handled the situation better? certainly, there is plenty of things he could have done. He could have communicated better, he could have clarify certain misconceptions from the first stream and what not but you can’t fault someone who tried to communicate his point when the person he talks to overlooks it because they don’t know if they are getting a product or not. So tell me how does someone who doesn’t have a particular endgoal in mind explain where his idea will end up? He don’t, he explains his intentions for the project he is working on and hope people will get hooked to that. Which spoiler alert he did. People just choose not to listen.

You can only truly string yourself along when you let your own expectations run wild. Faber cannot be responsible for your expectations no matter what, he isn’t you. Ultimately try watching the stream again with an open mind you’ll be suprised.

At this point I’m inclined to think that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion due to an attempt at manufacturing drama.

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So, uh, what’s his point? Since you seem to be the fan who would definitely not overlook a point, especially from someone notable in the community.

Hmm.

Really? I must’ve missed it. Quote? Screenshot? I’d like to be reminded where it was.

Here’s a possible one, though.

image

Something to do with a new Bionicle, it looks like…

Darn it, I forgot my textbook on Understanding the Danish Man’s Attempts at Advertising. I really shouldn’t have skipped the Discerning the Inner Mind through Vague Statements class.

Yes, I’m being needlessly abrasive with this, but you realize Kini’s post is the retort to your retort, correct? I could combat it entirely by quoting different points in it. Look:

I could keep going but Kini is typing and I think he’s got more to say… Or reiterate, since this post has pretty much everything.

Why would TTV need that?

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I know. It’s bad.

Accurate, though I should note it’s one of those “We already have X number of established customers in a market with Y potential customers and Z market share.”

10,000 Bionicle fans ready to buy is definitely a fad more than a “OMG MAKE IT NOW” product, but it’s also incredible for a single artist/concept dude with no current product.

So why can’t he be clear about that now? Why the vaguery, why the “Just be content with being along for the ride”? Why the “You’re on the beach wanting me to bring the wave to you” statements? If he never intended to have people believe what the very obviously not insignificant number of people were led to believe he was doing, should he not… i dunno, explain that? And reiterate upon it?

If i say something in a stream from two years ago, or a year ago, does it hold the same weight today? You yourself said things change.

You’re purposely misrepresenting my argument here. Faber doesn’t need to tell us 100% what he intends in full. He needs to give us the slightest hint of what he intends, just the briefest bit of clarity that will clean up the issue.

Let me be absolutely, irrevocably, 100% clear. I have zero issue with Faber himself. I have zero issue with what he’s done because ultimately, on a personal level, I literally do not care. He posts concept art, cool. That isn’t going to change that Bionicle coming back or not is a completely moot point to me personally.

However it also doesn’t change the fact that I do find his treatment of the community in this matter troubling, especially because Faber’s status in this community is based solely on the fact that he made Bionicle originally. Otherwise it would just be cool concept art, and no one would care about some greater plan or idea.

The fact of the matter remains that Faber has not only vague posted, but if the only information you have to rebut the fact that he’s been vague comes from a stream from well over a year ago, then he obviously has not been clear enough everywhere else, thus proving my point.

A single piece of evidence to the contrary is a fluke, not a compelling reason for why someone shouldn’t be criticized.

I recognize that there is plenty of negativity surrounding Faber and that people feel the need to defend him as a result. I get it, I do, because even to me a lot of the more… visceral reactions to his posts are more over-the-top than is warranted. However, my criticism of him doesn’t come from the place of a jilted Bionicle fan.

This happens to be what I do for a living. My criticism is professional, more than anything.

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His stream from like a year ago. Mentioned it earlier in this topic. Several times.

Sorry fogot we were an hive mind that can reach our on conclusions through what we are presented my bad./s

Okay, you’re right.

Jeez i typed that four different ways trying to make it not sound condescending because I agree with your point and I was wrong in my approach to the scenario, please work with me here

90% of my brainpower went into my two extra eyes

BECAUSE, KINI

WHERE WE’RE GOING

We must be interpreting it through different cultures. Nothing of that implied anything remotely definite and was as vague as not needing letters where we’re going.

Which is apparently to the deepest ring of h*eck

Nah, it just seems like you wouldn’t completely misunderstand a statement when it’s made by someone in the community with some level of status, since you seem to be a fan who is definitely not skewed in opinion like everyone else and who would definitely look at any statement with no prior bias or point of conflict.

Especially not any statements made by members with some minor status making any sort of comment directed specifically at you, about this topic, within the last hour.

Hint hint.

You get paid?

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