I’m not saying that the shield was the only issue brought up, but it’s the only one that actually matters for your point, since you’re arguing for a rule-break on the grounds that it was done before. The rules that other people think the original entry broke don’t matter. TTV makes those decisions, not the fans, and TTV’s decision is that the torsos were fine and the only rule-break was the shield.
Comparing the severity of perceived infractions with the severity of your actual infraction isn’t a fair comparison. You can’t say “other people thought it broke major rules, therefore TTV must knowingly let me break major rules”.
So I get your points if you want to qualify against the severity of rule infractions. But how I see it is that if a rule was broken, then a rule was broken, and if we want a hardline approach then we should have enforced it that way from the beginning. TTV should have clarified when these concerns were being brought up immediately, but they did not until the end, which by definition influenced the results when it should have been disqualified. I don’t know how productive it is to argue how much the results would have been affected had they been open with the rule being broken, but for any polls it’s important to point out bias where there is one. The best option would have been to restart as is (and has been) done in many controversial situations. I think we understand the points we’re both making, but our axioms and values are different so we are coming to different conclusions.
And to reiterate, I wasn’t trying to flout the rules entirely. I was just, admittedly, stretching them as I stated before. That’s why titan Bomonga is in there. I think it just comes down to whether small/big Bomonga is OK or not, and I can make the changes there.
Yes! I think they should feel like those builds are accurate and are not something they have to settle for. I think the spirit of inclusivity should validate those builds in addition to the very unique MOC we got. That’s what I wanted to do with my entry.
Whether or not this follows the rules, I enjoy the illustration. Having Bomonga in there twice is a bit odd, and the scale is a bit trippy since it looks like Background Bomonga is supposed to be big, but we know Roodaka isn’t that big. It’s definitely cool, though. The posing of the foreground folks is admittedly a bit strange, especially for Gaaki, who’s just kind of jumping the opposite way from everyone else. Even so, the overall idea is neat.
Thank you so much for entering! Unfortunately, we’ve detected multiple issues regarding adherence to the contest rules. We apologize for the relative delay in notifying you, but, as others have pointed out, there were many stylistic modifications made here that needed to be taken into consideration. Ultimately, some of these creative choices are allowed under the current stylization rules, but there are still changes that need to be made before this entry can be accepted:
Bomonga
Bomonga’s eye colour has been changed from the winning model. Please change the eyes to match the colour on the winning model.
The overall shape of Bomonga’s shoulders has been significantly modified. Please alter the shoulders to be more consistent with the winning model.
Two different versions of Bomonga have been submitted, one of which has significantly modified the shape and proportion of Bomonga’s limbs (in addition to the changes mentioned above). Please modify the two versions to be more consistent with each other, as well as with the winning model.
The larger version of Bomonga has added armour in what is believed to be an attempt to modify, rather than stylize, the winning MOC. This is most notable in the shoulders (as mentioned above), thighs, and crotch. Please ensure that the winning MOC is accurately depicted in your artwork.
Kualus
Kualus’s scarf has been repurposed, changing the function of the article entirely. Additionally, it has been changed to be green. Please change both the position and colour of the scarf to be more consistent with the original model.
Kualus’s eye colour has been altered from the original model. Please change the eyes to green to match the original model.
Pouks
Pouks’s eye colour has been altered from the original model. Please change the eyes to blue to match the original model.
Pouks’s chest armour is missing the fins from the winning model. Please add this feature of his armour.
Gaaki
No issues found.
If you could make these changes within the next seven days, your entry will be good to go to the polls. If you have any questions regarding the nature of the changes being requested, please don’t hesitate to ask.
This was one of the things that took us a long time to discuss, but it was determined that the manual detailing and colouring, as well as the allowed stylistic decisions, added enough to the initial reference renders that the rule was not violated.
Rule 6b exists moreso to prevent people from just resubmitting the winning MOC, or a slightly modified MOC.
Thank you for getting back to me! Good to know that small/big Bomonga versions seems to be ok. I can work with these changes, nothing too major.
Following up on the difference between ‘stylization’ and ‘modification’, is the main issue that one of the Bomongas depicted must be ‘accurate’ to the MOC so that I can show either version as stylized from the model? I can accept this answer if so, but I want to point out that in MOCing, most “Mata remakes” or “Metru versions of Mata” would be considered stylizations of the Mata rather than modifications by the fanbase. So just pointing out why I thought what I did would be ok. Looking to all the Takanuva sets as an example, perhaps it’s that a titan build is considered a stylization of the original, but only if the original exists in canon to begin with.
Anyway, I digress. If the large Bomonga were changed to better reflect the original, then is the small Bomonga ok? How about vice versa? My priority will be to legitimize Bomongas that don’t need five metru torsos, but having clarity on what is permissible will be helpful on the next iterations of my artpiece.
I don’t think that that’s the case. Stylization is an art thing. Alteration of minor details is stylization, making the art uniquely yours. To change an actual, material aspect of a MOC, like what parts it uses, is a modification.
Maybe it’s a bit of both? I have never seen revamp MOCs be exclusively referred to as a modification. I have more commonly seen them presented as stylizations. Eg. “Metru Style Toa Mata” – but I agree that modifications are inherent to those kinds of MOCs.
Just to be clear, while we are okay with the character being depicted twice, having two different versions is still an issue.
There are two main issues here.
As said above, the first issue is that you have included two significantly different depictions of the same character. Since the artwork is meant to determine the canon appearance of these characters, we cannot have two different variants simultaneously present.
The second issue is specific to the limbs of the smaller version in the foreground. The altered limb construction massively alters the shaping, proportions, and overall silhouette of the character. We don’t require that the exact Metru torso piece be replicated 1:1 in the artwork, but the appearance of the limbs in the artwork must still be inspired by the original part. Here, the smaller Bomonga’s limbs are quite clearly Vahki legs, and the overall shape is different than the large forearms and hands of the original model.
You have to be careful here about crossing the line between stylization and modification; the five Metru torsos are part of the winning model, and the appearance that they give the MOC needs to be reflected here.
As stated above, you are not required to depict the exact piece in your artwork if you want to keep the limbs ambiguous, but the overall shape of the model cannot be changed.
Hello @Lewinga,
I am here to notify you of the fact that you have entered the final day of the period for making the requested changes. Please make sure to post them in time.
If you know you won’t be able to make it and need more time, please sent us a PM and we can discuss an extension.
@ToaKebaka this updated entry is still in violation of rule:
4e.
Artwork cannot significantly modify the aesthetics of the original MOC, either by omission or addition, and must follow the color scheme of the original MOC as closely as possible. For example, additional limbs or significant color shifts would not be allowed.
All 4 of Bomonga’s limbs are intentionally obscured, which should be considered a significant omission if this entry having shields for some characters just be potentially held out-of-frame wasn’t allowed and they all had to be seen, as the image here leaves nothing for the build to be inferred past the elbows and knees.
Argument could then be made that Gaaki’s pose also obscures the chest piece.
Kualus is also using the wrong model of the Mask of Sensory Aptitude - a change that this entry, and this one made that were requested to be corrected also.
Additionally, the scarf on this entry’s Kualus was requested to be changed from a dark shade of tan, to one that more closely matched the original build’s, and the scarf here is a mustardy colour.
(@Lewinga before you rush to make changes or argue, I’m not an auditor and this isn’t an official request, just part of the peanut gallery, noticing rules being inconsistently enforced and different entrants being held to different standard - only speaking up now as the entry list has finally been updated and it’s implied this entry has been accepted.)
Ok, so for Bomonga, I tried to do a pose similar to Entry 11. I don’t think there were problems in that entry, so I went with a similar concept for mine. About as much of mine is similarly positioned and visible. Additionally, whereas you can only see two limbs in entry 11, you can actually make out 3 in mine – it’s just harder because of 1) the placement of Norik’s right arm and 2) the silhouette for Bomonga’s leg color, which blends in with the rocks. Regarding Norik, there wasn’t a lot I could do because he already needs to pop off the page so that I could fit the rest of the toa. And to center Bomonga against Norik means that some part of his body is going to cover Bomonga (ie. his legs). Additionally, I didn’t have enough time to redo Norik from scratch like I did for Bomonga, so not a lot of changes could be made without totally redoing my entry.
Also, for what it’s worth, I did position Bomonga in a way that four of his limbs were initially visible:
Again, Norik is just making it hard to see the legs. I did however only draw them as silhouettes since it had been communicated to me that all I needed was the general shape to be ok.
Also, if you look at other entries, like in Entry 1, a similar amount of Bomonga is obscured. It is simply the nature of six figures being fit together in a team drawing that makes composition tricky.
Please understand that given the revisions I was asked to make and the original composition my entry had, this was going to be a hard change for me to do without totally redrawing my entry from scratch. There was a lot of empty space I had to deal with by removing Roodaka and Titan Bomonga. I worked with what I had available in the limited time I had left, and I tried to keep it tasteful while allowing the rest of my art to breathe. I did not have two weeks like other people, I had only eight days (less considering I had only seen the notice later).
Regarding Gaaki, I didn’t make too many changes because they said she was fine. I didn’t think about the chestpiece potentially being a problem because I was so focused on her pose and composition of the team as a whole. I acknowledge your concern, but if that is truly going to be an issue, then I wish it had been brought up sooner.
And with Kualus, regarding his mask, to be fair your model had half of it covered. I only tried to make the mask look more like an actual Noble mask by drawing inspiration from the turaga masks. If the mods had asked for me to change it, I would have. Also, I can make the scarf darker, but this was really an honest attempt at illustrating beige. I referenced this and slightly adjusted the color to match the darker setting:
Lastly – I think you should know that I find it incredibly frustrating when an honest effort at following the feedback given to me is met with “This should be disqualified.” I worked on this from the moment I saw the messages to me – over parts of Thanksgiving – literally to the last minute on this. This entry is an honest attempt at balancing the rules with what I wanted to illustrate. I think it is incredibly disrespectful for you to tag a mod and ask for me to be DQ’d when I am really trying to put something out here to the best of my ability.
This is clearly not a Noodlryx-type of illustration, and I don’t get why you think I’d go through such efforts to make an illustration like this in bad faith. Obviously I’m not too happy about the results with Bomonga and how that contest was handled, but instead of complaining about it I am trying to act on it by creating something not only amenable for me but also within the rules. If people don’t like it, then they just can choose not to vote for it. But this whole “this entry needs to be DQ’d” feels like harassment and I am very, very distraught by how much anxiety this forum has given me over the course of this contest. I don’t know if voicing this is going to get me banned, but I need it to be known by how much I am affected by these responses.
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Saw your edit and I appreciate it, so thank you for letting me know. I’ve said it before in an earlier post here, and I agree that it’s important for standards to be consistent for everyone. I hope you’re not offended by anything I said above, but still these have still been my feelings on my experiences here.
For starters, @Lewinga, your entry is now good to go to the polls.
The rules of the contest specifically allow for parts of the body to be unseen:
This is why Bomonga’s limbs are allowed to be hidden.
Gaaki’s chest follows the same reasoning, in addition to the fact that it isn’t really “hidden”, just facing away from the camera; some side of the figure has to be facing away, and, for Gaaki, this entry chose it to be the chest.
The reason the Toa Tools were asked to be shown in other entries is because they can actually be removed from the figure and missing entirely from the scene; unlike the Toa’s limbs, they cannot be implied to be there if they cannot be seen.
The difference between these change requests is due to the differences between Bomonga and Kualus’s custom mask models.
Bomonga’s Faxon was specifically designed to be a different version of a currently-existing mask, while Kualus’s mask is a model of a standard Mask of Sensory Aptitude. The first entry you referenced was asked to change Kualus’s mask because it included textures that were not present on either the winning mask model or the canon artwork it was based on. Both entries were asked to change Bomonga’s mask because they used the original (different) version of the mask. This entry has neither problem.
The reason that that entry was asked to change is because the scarf was seen as more gray, than tan. This entry simply has a different shade of tan.
I can assure you, we have made a special effort to ensure consistency in our decisions, often referencing multiple previous change requests that were made before posting any feedback. I hope that the above explanations can give you some insight into how we deemed it necessary to request (or not request) certain changes.
