I’m all for changing, for example, the shin and of course the shoulder armor. Regarding the shoulder, I don’t even mind if “different-function” pieces were used. While I recognize that most people will probably find this inanely stringent, I do feel that the thigh armor should remain, well, standard Metru thigh armor. It’s in my opinion a core component of the Metru build, even if, as has been said before, it was the “only” available option.
EDIT, and this will probably drive you crazy because I do see you actively drafting a response.
Based on @toaskello’s and my Epic Size Chart, the Inika are to the Metru what the Nuva are to the Mata. In that sense, I feel that (and can actively see, based on the similarities in the thigh plates) the Inika thigh is a Nuvafied, powered-up, modified Metru thigh.
Would it make you feel better to think about how some canon Bionicle teams do not have uniformity? I mean look at the Mistika and the Phantoka. Not very uniform, same team, and even technically the same armor (Adaptive).
I would still like an even color split however. Because visual.
I can see where you’re coming from, but I think a large component of that perception comes from the extremely similar design cues that the piece takes with other “Metru pieces” such as the feet, shoulders, and torso.
I don’t really see a point in mandating the thigh piece if you aren’t going to mandate the use of the other “Metru pieces”.
Not really; pretty much all the Toa Teams we have are absurdly modified from how Toa should look. For that matter, the Metru and Mata are the only Great Being-designed, standard Toa in the theme’s entire run. The Mistika and Phantoka were given Adaptive Armor that heavily modified their appearances and likewise the Mahri (as another less-uniform team) were changed by the Ignika in unnatural ways.
Like you predicted, I also believe in mandating Metru feet. The shoulder armor only gets a pass because Norik uses Nuva shoulders.
Slightly off-topic, but are there any other examples of MOCs using the upside down Metru torso that people can link to? I like the look of purple guy here, and I’m curious if there are other notable variations on “how to do it,” so to speak (my own attempts at flipping over Norik haven’t been most fruitful in this regard).
But the Hagah werent from one source. And can you point me to where the Great Beings designed the Metru? Im genuinely not familiar where its stated that the GB designed Metru Toa. But would the Inika also not fall in line with this? I mean the Red Star made them, but as a protocol set by the GBs.
That the Hagah weren’t from one source and all utilized the Metru build should, imo, speak volumes as to how the Metru build is the universal standard design, but I digress. The GBs didn’t necessarily design the Metru, but my point is they went through a 100% standard, natural transformation, and their only influence was Lhikan, who as far as we can tell also was a 100% normal Toa with no physical deviations. The Inika are, from what I can tell based on their height and aesthetic, actually based on the Nuva design with some modifications due to the Red Star’s influence. This is similar to how Takanuva looks like a Nuva despite being a normal Toa.
I mean you’re not wrong but the Mata were at minimum commissioned by the GBs and were built rather than transformed, so they clearly have “unmodified” bodies, even if they don’t look like the Metru. This is likely because they’re six of the oldest Toa built.
The Great Beings gave Artakha the materials, but (as far as I know) the designs came from Artakha himself.
Comparing their body types in the context of a “standard Great Being design” isn’t really fair.
EDIT: A brief search of the Greg Archives gives no information on where the design of the Toa Mata came from. It may have been the Great Beings, or it may have been Artakha.
SECOND EDIT: I found one:
Since the GBs designed Mata Nui, as well as created Artakha, it would make sense Artakha would know something of the design scheme for Mata Nui and base the Toa Mata off it.
This implies that the Toa Mata were not based off of any “standard” design.
I want to start by saying thank you to the TTV staff for keeping on with all this and trying to keep things civil. These discussions need to be held in good faith, and there are a lot of different perspectives to try and juggle.
For my 2 cents, aside from confirmed details such as the spear/shield combo and metallic armour, we know that the Hagah are metru styled builds. Therefore I feel the most important element to consider is that the new Hagah are visually & aesthetically consistent with the existing Hagah sets. To that end, I feel like it’s important to not mandate too many elements of the build. The Toa Mata & Nuva are visually consistent while still having variety in the builds & proportions of each toa.
If you can make a completely custom MOC using only G2 pieces that looks consistent with the two existing sets (I’m sceptical, but happy to be proven wrong), then that’s fantastic. Looking at some of the examples that have popped up in this thread, that element of visual consistency should be evident. Nenon, despite using a metru torso, looks very inconsistent with existing metru sets. The Vakama model, on the other hand, does look consistent even with a custom torso.
Unfortunately, leaving the MOC contest completely unrestricted would cause more issues, as “visual consistency” can be extremely subjective. I feel going with the initial suggestion of requiring the use of the metru torso (and perhaps the waist) is a good compromise, as it adds a base level of consistency to all entries. It also leaves plenty of room to be creative with the rest of the model, as even excluding all the options for limbs there are plenty of creative modifications I’ve seen to the torso piece (purple Onewa being the obvious one).
That one restriction doesn’t completely stifle creativity like some are saying, and in the past I’ve found some of my best creations have come from forcing myself to use a piece that appears restrictive.
It’s also worth remembering that this is only one part of the planned canon contests, and future contests (if they end up happening - which I hope they do) are for characters with far fewer defined elements.
Personally, I still want to include the MOC part of the Hagah contest and I’m sure we’ll still see plenty of diverse builds within that restriction.
I wasn’t really trying to claim that the Mata design was a standardized one common throughout the species, but rather that they are completely-normal Toa built from the ground up: they weren’t mutated, they weren’t transformed Matoran, they didn’t fall in a tub of Energized Protodermis (yet), etc. Obviously, from a real-world perspective their similarity to the Metru gearbox is coincidence at best and at its most deliberate, the Metru gearbox was an “improvement” on the Mata gearbox as a building toy platform, but in-lore it is easy to assume that the Mata were built based on prototype Toa – like Helryx, whose canon model serves to affirm that assumption. While it is not strictly canon, it is an easy logical deduction that keeps with the timeline of the Mata’s creation and their design relative to the Metru.
The same logical deduction could be said that like how the Matoran that became the Inika were based off of the Nuva and received a different aesthetic, some of the Matoran that became the Hagah could still be Metru design, but have different variations of their armor and limbs.
Sure, and that’s why I’ve said they could have different shins. I think that the forearms should remain the same for the sake of playability, as though they were a normal canister set.
I get your logic and I don’t think you’re wrong for having it, but what you’re saying is definitely your interpretation and not concretely solidified by anything. Its got strong basis, but not definitive. I myself am pretty purist as well, but I don’t think a split of 3 metru thigh armors and 3 Inika thigh armors would look bad on the team at all
This, like, solely pertains to the color scheme. It’s one of those answers that really annoys me because it was clearly generated by some hotshot looking for a cool edit to BS01 that didn’t do anything to develop canon (in fact it made an addition with no relevance at all), but beyond that Ackar’s physical armor shares no similarity with Tahu’s. That’s purely a color scheme thing.
as of right now, in our minds, it’s either this stud-based measurement guideline for custom torsos OR an upper + lower Metru torso mandate.
At this point this a big necropost digging from several hundred posts in the past in order to quote, but and you definitely didn’t already know this from my prior posts I highly favor stud-based measurement over torso piece mandate.
Breaking the quote so I don’t send an unnecessary notif.
EDIT: NOOOOO HE SAW IT ANYWAY HOW COULD HE SEE THROUGH MY FOOLPROOF SCHEME TO NOT BOTHER HIM
All right
Let’s say I want to put an inika chestplate on my Hagah Moc. So, I try to attach it… and there’s a big stupid gearbox in the way. I can either put it way too low.
