I would say it is
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Look closely; it uses a Vahki waist, not a Metru waist. That said, I think such an entry would be disqualified by any reasonable person.
You forgot the option to not do it.
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I mean I certainly wouldn’t vote for it, but I wouldn’t disqualify it either.
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It runs completely against the spirit of the “Metru build” with highly specialized greeble and detailed aesthetics, not to mention limbs that don’t resemble the Metru build. As I pointed out a minute ago, it doesn’t even have Metru hips – it’s just built around a Metru torso. I’m not knocking the MOC, but it’s not a Metru build by any definition, let alone for this contest’s purposes.
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As usual, I find myself agreeing with you. 
I’m going to be blunt; there are still more questions than focused goals that need to be addressed before we can really consider a concrete rulseset for the Hagah. One thing I’m completely against is a regelation to an art-only contest. I’ve had people tell me that this way, moccists can just take the art and create their own designs from it. However, that flies in the face of moccists who actually want to compete and participate in this contest. That was the point of the moc-and-art combination, to begin with! If I had it my way, I’d nix the art contest, but then that’s not fair to artists. So, I say we keep it like it is, or we provide the opportunity for art and moc to compete directly.
On the subject of what I define as a Metru build, I’ve seen a ton of excellent, Metru-style custom builds that reflect the idea that a Metru build is not and should not be limited exclusively to the 04 gearbox, with all of its limitations. Yes, the gearbox can be and is often provided plenty of love and I’ve seen plenty of excellent builds using it as the core of the torso (including the official Dark Hunter Mimic, @BobTheDoctor27’s work as well as my own self moc); however, I have also seen multiple interpretations of the Metru proportions that are positively fantastic, such as @Dag’s Kualus, as well as the work of Aartii Studios.
The 04 gearbox is full of opportunity to innovate, but if someone can duplicate the Metru proportions with a custom design, then why stop them?
As for masks; I believe that this should be looked at on more of a case-by-case basis. The Hagah canonically each possess masks designed with ‘the likeness of a past hero in mind, save Iruini,’ and Pouks’ Mask of Emulation in particular is stated to possess difference in shape from the norm. That doesn’t warrant the disqualification of custom, 3D printed designs, in my opinion, but it does raise some case by case scenarios where maybe Pouks isn’t allowed to wear a mask that resembles the canon Mask of Emulation, for example.
On the whole, the Hagah are each Toa from different initial teams, meaning that I’d like to see some more variation in attributes and tweaks to the builds to make them more unique. Perhaps Bomounga is built with larger forearms for smashing the ground and creating earthquakes, or Kualus has spikes built into his feet for icewalking. I want to see stylistic opportunity, while simultaneously remaining within the realm of consistency. Because if all we are left with is the change to create the most miniscule variations of torso length or the kind of shoulder pads we use, then that will disappoint a lot of people, as we’ve seen today, already.
I know how hard it will be to judge such a build between consistent and creative, but I believe that there is a middle ground here.
-Arc
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A MOC-and-art combination allowed us to create visual aids for artists to work with that were solidly planted in the core Technic system. We already have a pretty basic frame for the Hagah: they need a Metru torso and limbs that at least come from the BIONICLE franchise, they need spears, and they need Rhotuka shields identical to Norik and Iruini’s. I wouldn’t mind MOC entries, honestly, but it does feel like an unnecessary step.
EDIT: Consider the wild variations in the Helryx contest that arose even after a single MOC was selected. I feel like with the vaguest “Metru build” requirement, we’d still get plenty of variety without the added step of a MOC contest.
I don’t entirely disagree, but I do feel that it opens the floodgates for more extreme designs that require closer scrutiny and will cause issues down the line. Where do we determine what is and isn’t similar to a Metru gearbox?
I agree, more or less. I think that not every mask should be different from canon (Iruini’s Kualsi is a standard Kualsi) and I think the option should be open in every case except Pouks’s Mask of Emulation.
I love the idea of variations to perhaps the forearm (I personally would keep it the same), the lower leg, and maybe some variation on the feet/shoulders. Personally, I think a MOC should retain the standard feet/shoulders and artwork could then stylize them further, similarly to how the Toa Nuva all appear the same as toys but feature differences in the Miramax films.
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“ Are you aware of the allegory of The Ship of Theseus? How many pieces can be removed from a Metru build before it stops being a Metru build? “
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As long as the main torso with the function of either Hagah or Metru sets is intact I’d say its fair game
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In theory, yeah. We’ve got a pretty good handle on the opinions people have, and of course we’ll discuss everything in full. That being said, as I said in the super megapost:
I popped into a few servers to spread the word about this, but going forward, we’re going to centralize feedback to this topic purely for simplicity’s sake. For the podcast discussion, though, yeah, you don’t need to worry. We’re going to be super comprehensive. 
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I’d further limit the shoulder plates, thigh plates, forearms, and feet (essentially, everything that both Iruini and Norik shared, as well as the Toa Metru with the exception of the forearms). The reason I specifically would keep the forearms the same is so that they can perform the same functions with their spears as the existing Hagah sets.
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I determine it based mostly on proportions and how the custom design lines up to the 04 gearbox. That logic stance may be challenged in future, but as of now that is where I look, with some variation in the ratio of chest width:center pinhole to neck connection.
I would also personally like to see opportunity for adjustments to waist or hips (perhaps hanging hip armor?). For the same reason that Norik/Iruini don’t look as similar in terms of additional armoring and the predisposed elements we have to modify the Metru design, as of Meso’s current, preliminary guidelines. Why not more variation? Allow moccists to influence the creative direction of the art.
I get what you’re saying here, but for the sake of avoiding being too vague, I’d like to again emphasize that because the Hagah are different warriors from different teams, while I agree with your Miramax statement, I’d like to see yet more variation on the builds, while keeping them indisputably ‘team-like.’
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I’d personally think that is limiting things to far. I’d rather have people being able to experiment with limbs and armor pieces than forcing them to a standrad that said I wouldn’t mind limiting the upper limbs to the metru double sockets as well.
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Pretty much this. I want to have the chance to create a team that has both diverse, unique members while still looking like a team.
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I’m fine with mocs being restricted to using the metru upper torso/gearbox but I feel like the hips should be allowed to use different pieces. you could use something like a vahki hip piece on one or some of your toa and it would add some nice variety without deviating too far from the 04 aesthetic.
I could see situations where people could go too far with this freedom though.
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53 unread posts?
crap it’s begun again
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That’s a good definition, but to prove my point I’m going to attack it ruthlessly like an “extreme” designer might. You’ve pretty much defined “similarity” as holding to effectively the same silhouette and proportions as an 04 gearbox – we’ll say the same dimensions in height with some variable in width and depth, and perhaps variable vertical placement of the center pinhole to allow for higher or lower chestplates. What about filling the inside? How crazy can I get with the greeble, as long as the general silhouette remains the same and the proportions are agreeable?
Maybe. I personally want to see what I’d expect out of a canister set, but I admit that makes me a minority and a weird one at that. I wouldn’t mind seeing hip armor, etc., but I’m a big stickler on the skeleton in particular here.
It’s a strict limit, but I’ll refer you to the above.
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First, as for my personal thoughts on this: there should be MOCs involved, and they should be required to use the Metru torso as a torso.
I used to be in the “custom torso with matching proportions” camp, but this MOC changed my mind:
I would argue that this is a Metru build, despite having completely different proportions. If even other Metru builds can have wacky proportions, then how could you regulate custom torsos to have “Metru proportions”?
…is completely canon-compliant. I see no reason to disallow something unless it is explicitly contradicted by canon.
As such, custom masks should be allowed, which in turn means that Art is required at some point in the chain.
I see where you’re coming from with this, but keep in mind that Lego did similar non-uniform distributions with the Visorak: 4 of them had the Rahkshi forearm, while 2 had Bohrok arms; there was a 2-2-2 split for the shins; 5 had long thighs, while only 1 had short; finally, the secondary colours and eye colours were all over the place, not following any kind of pattern.
I agree that this option needs to be kept open.
It baffles me that people still bring this up. Ignoring the fact that the Volitak has a canon shape, it still makes no sense for Nidhiki’s mask to be modelled after his mutated form. Why would the Great Beings intentionally design a mask to look like an insect? And if they did, why would Nidhiki, who has a fear of insects, wear it?
And, at the end of the day, there’s nothing about the mask that even screams “mutated Nidhiki”. Sure, the chin thingies look like his Vahki head, but do you know what else they look like? The Vahki.
People always say “the mask was modelled after Nidhiki” but Nidhiki was already a reuse of Vahki parts. There’s nothing unique about his head that ties it to the mask.
Not really related to the contest discussion, but I want this. I want orange Gakki.
“Pointy”
What do you mean by this? You think that some of the Hagah should use Lego-produced masks? Or you think some of the Hagah’s mask shapes should match their powers?
In the case of the former, I agree. Personall, I’d like to see a combination of pre-existing masks and new ones.
In the case of the latter, it isn’t possible. It has been confirmed that the remaining Hagah’s mask shapes all differ from their true powers:
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I’m on your side in this one, but I do want to remind that originally Norik and Iruini were to be Toa Dume and Nidhiki, and the mask was deliberately shaped to resemble Nidhiki’s mutated face. That’s why the sentiment exists.
Huh. Noted.
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While I voted for Options 1 and 2, I would like to make it known that my heavy preference is for Option 2, if that matters to anyone at all. And although I didn’t vote for Option 3, I do like Option 3.5 as presented within the document, and if that was an independent poll on here, that would’ve been the only one I voted for.
The way I see it, these are canon contests, not creativity contests. These contests in general need restrictions, the Hagah moreso. “Restriction” is not a dirty word, and shouldn’t be treated as such. People can be (and are) gloriously creative with restrictions. All that restrictions do is guide the flow of creativity, not stifle it.
Importantly, there is a time and a place for off-the-wall creativity for creating characters, be it in MOC or art form. These contests are to determine the canon appearance of characters, and as such should follow the rules of the canon. In the case of the Hagah, that means following the basic blueprint that Norik and Iruini established. If you want to make a titan-sized Gaaki with a snake tail, then great! But that’s not what these contests are for, and pretending otherwise doesn’t do anyone any favors. As Meso said in the document: “Too often, we feel like people don’t put enough emphasis on ‘canon’ and put too much on ‘contest.’” I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.
As for specific feedback to the options:
Option 1: The most conventional path that also has the potential for most conflict, depending on how strictly rules are placed and enforced. I agree with the sentiment in the document that the upper and lower Metru piece is a “Metru build,” and this is something that I would want to see enforced should there be a MOCing portion. Likewise, I agree that the Hagah shouldn’t deviate from Norik and Iruini in terms of aesthetic (little-to-no CCBS, not excessive in greebling, etc). Indeed, I’d go even further, and insist that the Metru upper arm pieces be used in the same way they are with Norik and Iruini.
Option 2: Of course, with these restrictions in place, many MOCists will decry this and ask what the point of a MOCing portion of the contest is even for. Thus, my heavy and primary support for Option 2. If we focus more on the art, then (to my mind at least) there will be less of a chance for egregious delineations from Norik and Iruini to spring up. There would still be restrictions in place on the art as well, similarly to what I outlined above, but it would go much smoother.
Option 3: As it stands, this seems like the chaos option. There isn’t a possibility where I see this running smoothly, with people being pulled and stretched in various directions of “Well, I like this MOC of Pouks, and this art of Kualus, but they don’t go well with this art of Gaaki and this MOC of Bomonga.” And it seems redundant to go from there to a possible art portion again should even a single MOC win. At that point, you’d might as well have just done Option 1. However…
Option 3.5: This is my favorite, because it emphasizes the fact that they’re a team, and as such should follow general aesthetics. And it would avoid the complications of having four separate polls running for each of the Hagah at the same time by simply having them all appear in one poll (y’know, because this is a team pic). Really, this is my favorite option because it takes the simplicity of Option 2, and merely streamlines it further. This way, we’d be able to quickly move past the contest and allow MOCers who got nothing to do here the chance to dig into whoever next is coming up. True, that might deprive some MOCers who only wanted to participate in the Hagah contest, but that seems like a very low percentile.
Additional Hagah Thoughts:
In accordance with my firm stance with restrictions, I’d like to reiterate that Greg made it bluntly clear that the remaining Hagah’s Kanohi do not resemble how they naturally “should” appear, i.e., they should be like Norik’s in that they have a shape different to their powers. Regardless of which option the hosts go with, I would heavily like to see this rule enforced.
While I understand the desire to do separate contests for each of the Hagah to prevent people who, for example, only want to submit a Pouks MOC without needing to do the other three Hagah, I fear this approach will lead to a lack of cohesion the team should have. So, for example, there hypothetically could be a scenario where there are 4 Hagah with silver highlights, 1 with gold highlights, and 1 with copper highlights. Or there could be 3 Hagah with gold highlights, 1 with silver highlights, 1 with pink highlights, and 1 with red highlights. While there is admittedly nothing in the canon to contradict this color imbalance, it does nothing for the team’s aesthetic cohesion. As such, I would like the hosts to consider just requiring participants to do all four Hagah, rather than at minimum one. At least then there would be a unity in votes towards the team’s coloration.
Additional Contest Thoughts:
I’ve said this before in the main topic, but I’ll reiterate it here: 3D parts shouldn’t be included in these contests. Yeah, yeah, I know, unpopular opinion. In short, my stance on them are that they are third party productions that are quite literally not legitimate Lego pieces, and as such shouldn’t be included in any official capacity (yes, I know these contests aren’t quite Lego-sanctified, but they nonetheless represent official depictions of an official Lego IP). They’re fan fiction that should remain as such. You wouldn’t expect Greg to canonize some random fan fic short story off of BZP from six years ago, so why should you want Greg to do that for illegitimate pieces?
But, it’s clearly a boat that’s already sailed. The hosts are very obviously not in favor of disallowing these pieces. So instead, I broach a compromise: at the start of the Hagah contest (or really whenever the hosts decide is a good time), ban the use of fan fiction pieces created before the start of the Hagah contest (or again, before “X” start date). Any pieces created after this point would be fine to use, so long as they are from the pre-approved list created way back when. This way, people would still get their 3D pieces, and people like me would at least be tolerable with them in that they were specifically created with the contests in mind (like the art pieces of OG canon contests were, like Kirbold or Nikila).
(Man, this turned out to be a long one, didn’t it? As I started typing this, the comments went from in the forties to the one-twenties. Well, nonetheless, if you actually read this whole comment, thank you for taking the time! It’s important to hash this stuff out, and hopefully some general consensus can be reached. In any case, tally ho!)
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