Toa Hagah Canon Contest Ruleset Feedback

[AlexanderTG]

@TheJerminator

I also included a part about Iruini’s gold.

@AlexanderTG

My point isn’t that gold isn’t a part of their color scheme. Point is that blue+gold and white+gold are 100% of Pcionics and Light color schemes.

I think I’ve used this quote three times already.

@b6i6o6

He means that the Toa Hagah have been known to be exceptions to established rules.

Breaking one rule doesn’t mean they break all of the rules.

@b6i6o6

Have you seen my posts about the additional armor consideration ? Genuine question.

I’m not sure.

[TheJerminator]

@AlexanderTG

@AlexanderTG

My point isn’t that gold isn’t a part of their color scheme. Point is that blue+gold and white+gold are 100% of Pcionics and Light color schemes.

I think I’ve used this quote three times already.

And that’s why I included the part about Norik’s mask. Not only is it the wrong shape, but it is in the established shape of an existing Kanohi.

@AlexanderTG

Breaking one rule doesn’t mean they break all of the rules.

But it also doesn’t mean that they can’t.

[Toa-of-Snow]

@TheJerminator

lots of pictures

This is one of the truest and funniest replies I’ve seen in this topic, lol.
Thank you.

[b6i6o6]

It’s this one: Toa Hagah Canon Contest Ruleset Feedback - #491 by b6i6o6

In it, I’m arguing that having a gold Gaaki or Kualus actually do not break the color coding because the metallic color is additional elite armor and, therefore, not part of their “basic armor” color scheme.

[Wolk]

@AlexanderTG

Point is that blue+gold and white+gold are 100% of Pcionics and Light color schemes.

And yet Onepu and many other Onu-Matoran are purple-and-black like Ba-Matoran. Are they not canon in your mind? Because they are officially canon. Yes, if Gaaki and Kualus had gold they’d overlap with Psionics and Light, but there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t contradict anything because it was never said they could not overlap. Overlap between elements has never been disallowed in canon. Thus, it is entirely acceptable for them to use gold even if it was their natural armor (which it isn’t).

[AlexanderTG]

@TheJerminator

And that’s why I included the part about Norik’s mask. Not only is it the wrong shape, but it is in the established shape of an existing Kanohi.

And it has nothing to do with the colours…

@TheJerminator

But it also doesn’t mean that they can’t.

You don’t break the rules, that’s the point of rules.

@b6i6o6

In it, I’m arguing that having a gold Gaaki or Kualus actually do not break the color coding because the metallic color is additional elite armor and, therefore, not part of their “basic armor” color scheme.

It doesn’t matter what layer of armor it is.

@Wolk

And yet Onepu and many other Onu-Matoran are purple-and-black like Ba-Matoran. Are they not canon in your mind? Because they are officially canon. Yes, if Gaaki and Kualus had gold they’d overlap with Psionics and Light, but there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t contradict anything because it was never said they could not overlap. Overlap between elements has never been disallowed in canon. Thus, it is entirely acceptable for them to use gold even if it was their natural armor (which it isn’t).

Back to square 1

@AlexanderTG

As this is a community contest we have the ability to maintain consistency that set designers didn’t necessarily care about.

[Toa-of-Snow]

round and round the arguments go…
where they stop, nobody knows!

---

Ok but seriously I think every side of the conversation is just rehashing points at this stage. I really don’t have anything meaningful to add, so I’m just going to leave and encourage you all to continue being respectful.

[Wolk]

@AlexanderTG

As this is a community contest we have the ability to maintain consistency that set designers didn’t necessarily care about.

Did you even read what I said at all? It’s not a matter of consistency, it was never an inconsistency to begin with.

Please, point me to where in any story material it was ever stated that color combinations cannot overlap between different tribes.

[Tarkur]

@Wolk

The same could be said about the overly-detailed builds that are still using a Metru-torso.
Dag’s custom torso isn’t that different from the Metru torso.

Yes and no, because at least the overly intricate moc used the piece thats synonymous with metru builds making it one, while the other is an impressive build its nothing more than a pretender. However to avoid starting this debate again I’ll lay it to rest now

[Wolk]

Takanuva Stars doesn’t use the Mata torso yet it’s depicting the same figure we see in 2003.

I’d argue giving the Hagah heartlights and fingers creates a completely different artstyle from the Metru sets. Why? Because despite the Metru sets not having these features, in the story they do, thus their exlusion is part of the artstyle.

[b6i6o6]

It’s the creative moc contest vs canon appearance contest debate again. I agree with you in the sense that I would like the moc to strictly follow the sets aesthetics. However, remember that only the final art will be canon, not the moc. Therefore, the final art might have fingers and heartlight on all metru. If you decide to assemble the winning moc for your own purpose, you can ommit the heartlight and replace the finger by the usual connector.

[Frozendoomed]

…everything?
They don’t use their classical masks or armor. It could just as easily be that originally Kualus and Gaaki and Bomonga wore armor suited to their element and unique masks but because of becoming Toa Haga they were required to wear gold and gunmetal respectively.
This is the whole thing - the Toa Haga are not representative of what the actual colors of these elements are like.

[Tarkur]

@Wolk

Takanuva Stars doesn’t use the Mata torso yet it’s depicting the same figure we see in 2003.

The stars are a huge exception since they are the equivalent to todays Ninjago Legacy sets

[Sabretooth]

@Mesonak

is right that we don’t want to mandate people to draw characters that contests aren’t being held for. However, you do raise a good point about like it being beneficial. If we made the entry period long enough to make it a non-issue, I guess it could conceivably work. I’d like some more feedback on this point: what would you all think about mandating Norik and Iruini for the group art portion? This is something we can garner feedback on more as the contest goes on.

As much of a hassle as it would be to draw two more characters, I believe it’s necessary to make the group feel complete and to make it easier to tell how art style may be affecting the physical builds of the mocs by providing an existing reference.

[CalamitousT]

Aye aye aye… can we just agree that while it might be nice for Gaaki & Kualus’ colour-schemes to not overlap with those with existing elemental associations, as the canon stands it’s entirely possible.

Feels like I’m seeing a lot of preferences being insisted as rules; might just be a vocal few though.

(and yeah I know I’m the one who suggested putting the mask question back to Greg, but reconsideration was all I suggested. If he confirms the current rule then I’ll accept it)

[Lesnichiy]

@Mesonak

@Lesnichiy

Does upside down Hagah shield in art count as good for that rule? As several people pointed out, shield connected to the forearm should be allowed, as there is no reason to prohibit it - Greg never explicited that they hold their shields via hands. Also, storing shield on thigh should be allowed, in a fashion of 2016 Ekimu, as it too was never stated that any of the Hagah (exception for Norik) stored their shields on their backs.

We’re gonna go with no; for simplicity’s sake and to maintain coherence with how the rest of the Hagah are oriented, we feel it’s much simpler to require standard shield connection. The only allowance is for shields to be mounted on their backs for the purpose of allowing things like two-handed spears or things like that.

@Mesonak

@Tarkur

But what if I mount the shield like this or like this? will that be allowed both attachments are feautured with the 2 hagah sets:

Yeah, that’s fine. We don’t care HOW they hold it, just that they do in their hands. Upside-down shields are also fine.

About Upside-down: Last answer takes precedence or what? Maybe I’ve missed something, sorry if so.

[Ballomnomnom]

We believe in creative freedom when possible

And they say TTV doesn’t have a sense of humor!

[Wolk]

Creative freedom doesn’t equal going against what is established about the characters to be depicted…

[Takutanuva]

Okay but hear me out, what if I want it to?

[CalamitousT]

Substitute ‘I’ with ‘we’ and you might have a point. But then I’m not sure if anyone has a mechanism to facilitate that.

Unless we had The Canon Council…

All citizens of the fandom shall have a chance to pledge their case via their local elected representative. The Council shall deliberate and decree whether they find the amendment worthy of passage. Be warned, though: For those whose cases are not not endorsed by The Council may find that they, too, shall become non-canon, and find their existence relegated to unreleased videogames and early-2001 story material. It is in this wild, untamed place that we find our protagonist, know only as ‘Thunderthighs McGee’…
Part Two Next Week! (in an Appropriate Topic)