I think it was said 3 times already what we want to ask him, so someone could just dm him? Or are we too afraid that his answer would disappoint us? If he doesn’t comfirm that this is indeed Phantom and the backstory was heavily altered, we should remove the images from Phantom’s BS01 page, or just move them to the Dark Hunter page/Competitions page, because of the contradicting essay doesn’t match up with the BEU article.
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There is an entire sub-forum on these Message Boards where you guys can ask him. Just saying.
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Huh. I did not know that. I thought all Greg communication got shut down because of COPPA.
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Nope, because we have an age limit of 13 years old. He is allowed to be here because of that. It’s why we do not allow anyone below the age of 13 on the boards.
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Well, he was last seen visiting the boards on March 10th, so I can see why nobody has asked him yet.
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I’ve typed something up, but I’m not super great with words, so maybe you guys could fix it up a little?
Hello Greg,
A few weeks ago, a person on Reddit posted these images, claiming that they were the submission images for a winning entry of the Dark Hunter contest, 15 years ago:
INSERT IMAGES HERE
I, and the community, believe that this story has merit, since there were 35 winners of the contest, but only 32 fan-created Dark Hunters in the book. There is even a 33rd fan-created Dark Hunter that does not have an official appearance, since the model was not received in time for the official photo to be taken.
So we were wondering: Do you remember this entry?
[END MESSAGE]
I don’t know if we should mention Phantom at this point?
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By name, or as “The entry whose model didn’t get sent in”?
@LegoDetective @CaseyKinseyArt @Wolk
You have all been pretty involved in this whole process. Any suggestions before I post this in the Ask Greg?
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Maybe you should add that this is the same person who won the Furnace Salamander contest and provided the receipts, not just “hey someone posted this” with little to no context
Based on previous answers, I wouldn’t be surprised if he says that he doesn’t remember whenever he comes back onto the boards. Worse comes to worst, it’ll probably be featured in the Dark Hunters’ gallery page, much like the unknown prisoners of the Pit being featured on their respective page.
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It should either be me or Casey who asks greg directly.
Phantom has been my fight, my passion, my DREAM.
You have, once again, phrased things in a “devil’s advocate” way, disregarding information that I’ve explicitly made you aware of (the fact that greg has forgotten the images for many contest models)
A more accurate message to greg wouldn’t make casey out to be this fraud who “claims” things and “suggests” how his model is phantom. it would include details such as the signed book, how he lost the model in the mail, and how phantom’s model was described by greg as being lost in the mail and omitted from the book. Such a letter would also include my interactions with casey and how he always thought that his model was never shown, and how I was the one who initially suggested that since his model was lost in the mail temporarily after being sent in as a canon model, it is phantom. A letter like this would mention the 33 of 35 winners, but unlike your deceptive writing, would state that there were 33 canonized dark hunters, suggesting that the other two were never canonized (and as such, casey’s model is the 33rd canon one). this letter would also mention the essay, which greg clearly remembered distinctive and specific segments of when writing the encyclopedia entry nearly 5 years later.
This letter would and could be the highlight of my bionicle career - it would be written and sent by me or Casey, the one who has more recollection of this event than anyone could possibly have, the one who despite expressing that he “didn’t care if it was canon or not” publicly, privately thanked me for my dedication to help him and expressed his desire for his model to be confirmed as canon as he knows that it was always intended to shown visually in canon books had the mail not messed up.
I don’t think anyone wants Greg’s only interaction with this topic to be a rhetorically deceptive message from someone who refuses to use factual proof over vague and contradictory information. It should come from someone who really cares and someone who hears information and takes it into account, rather than someone who disregards and twists fact.
DO NOT post a letter to him yet, it’s not in your place to do so, and this has been proven by your suggested draft letter to greg.
sincerely,
Detective, the guy who has dedicated a year of his life to some 15 year old contests.
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Perhaps in that case, it be a third party that should do it. Because you’re also biased.
I want to point out two flaws in your logic -
Yes, we only know of 33 beings canonized, HOWEVER, unlike the Rahi Contest, the book prize was mentioned in the contest page in the magazine, as one of the prizes for the 35 first places.
To clarify, the Rahi Contest listed one prize for the 50 winners: The 6 Vahki sets.
The Dark Hunter Contest listed 3 prizes for the 35 winners: Being featured in the Dark Hunter book, a piece of Comic-con merch, and one of the 2005 titans.
There by, the two are not a fair comparison for if entries were meant to be sent in or not.
You’ve also been going off a quote from 8 years after the fact saying explitely that he does not remember and that the images of the MOC were possibly not sent in on time, however much closer to the actual time that these events occured, he did not say this, rather he said it was omitted from the book and that they no longer had the photos as they were needed to be destroyed 6 months later, and there by could not be run in the magazine.
In 6 months, 3 magazines would be run as they’re run every other month, and 3 Dark Hunters were indeed released through three seperate magazines - Vengeance, Silence, and Devestator. (To be clear, it is only 32 counting those; only 29 were in the book.) Given these cases, it sounds more likely that Scholastic cut those three, as well as Phantom, and that they were not able to release Phantom in time, as opposed to Phantom not arriving on time.
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Oh, get over yourself. No one is trying to ‘steal your glory’ here.
This topic has been going for around 2 weeks. No one messaged Greg.
Then, around 15 hours ago, Eljay reminded us that we have access to Greg on this website. Still, no message was sent.
I’m trying to get the ball rolling here. If you think you can send a better message (and it seems like you can), then by all means, go ahead. There’s a reason I posted here first, instead of just going straight to the Ask Greg.
But after 15 hours of silence after being told that we can contact Greg, I figured someone should start things off, so I did.
And remember, the point of the initial message should be to get Greg’s unbiased opinion on this, NOT to ‘prove’ that this is Phantom.
Once Greg gives his reply, then you can flex your 15 years worth of knowledge. But not in the initial message.
Yeah, probably. That’s when we would elaborate on all of the evidence that this is indeed Phantom. But before that, we should get Greg’s neutral opinion on all of this.
Because that neutral opinion could itself be evidence, either for or against the claim that this is Phantom.
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Apologies, I let my pride and excitement get the better of me when I wrote that. I’ll condense what I said and make it less biased and more objective
-Casey should probably write the letter
-I think that we should tell greg as many of the “main” details as possible
-We shouldn’t depend on him seeing the pic, let’s lead with the whole “mail issues” and “canon description” proof
-I wouldn’t have wanted to “flex” my knowledge of everything in the initial letter, I merely added that note in my response because I’m just very dedicated to this
We should also take time to ask greg, IMO, as I think he is focused on the canon contests.
my bad on that message, again, I guess my excitement got the better of me.
- Detective
edit, I have messaged casey to see what his prizes were for the DH contest besides the book and the titan, perhaps he received something else. I wonder if he will ever find that old letter.
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While the mailing issue with Casey’s MOC should be mention, I want to restate, Greg did not say Phantom had mailing issues. He explicitely says in the quote that he does not recall.
While this may not be necessary, I do think this makes sense. He should at least be the one to send it; I think the message will end up being written as a team effort.
But Greg already knows all of this. The important thing is to see if Greg connects the character with the image on his own, without us pushing one way or another. A while ago, someone pointed out that, if we come at Greg with all of this proof, he may canonize it just to satisfy the community, not because he truly believes it is Phantom.
In an ideal world, we wouldn’t actually need any of this proof; Greg would just remember immediately whether or not this is Phantom. We should give Greg the opportunity to make that decision, then show him the proof in the likely event that he doesn’t remember.
Although then, to be fair, we run the risk of Greg making a final decision based off of the first message, without knowing that there is other evidence.
Maybe the initial message should say something like “We have evidence that this image is canon, but we wanted to see if you remembered anything first”.
I actually said that in a more positive manner; if I was in your position, I would absolutely want to flex my knowledge.
S’okay, it happens. Especially when dealing with something that you (and all of us) are passionate about.
Good point. Maybe the three-week break?
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could have sworn I read somewhere that phantom was cut due to mailing issues with the original creator?
I think that was mentioned by Casey in the Reddit posts?
BS01 just says “the picture could not be found”
As in, they didn’t get the model for some undisclosed reason (probably the mailing error), then they tried to just use the original submission picture, but couldn’t find it.
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I would actually prefer if a third party who has less attachment to this issue brings this up to Greg. I personally am still teetering on the edge of whether or not I think this is Phantom, as there were so many alterations to the story. Personally I think Greg will have forgotten my MOC and I’m okay with that. If Greg says that, I’m totally okay with my MOC being taken off of the BS01 Phantom Page since it would still be unconfirmed. I’d still be interested to see if it wasn’t Phantom, but just an unnamed Dark Hunter. Again, I accept any sort of fate attached to this, no matter Greg’s answer. I really appreciate all of the hard work that every single one of you has put in to this.
Edit: For anyone curious about the mailing issue, my mom took me to the UPS store and when the lady put in the address she said that the address did not exist in their system. She found one that was fairly close, but just had a different ZIP Code. A few weeks later it got sent back to me. So I don’t know if Lego got it late, or if some good Samaritan sent it back to me (which I highly doubt considering the shipping was close to $15)
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