Been a bit busy with canon contest stuff/girl stuff, so took a while to post, but hey, i’m back.
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I’m deliberating on whether I want to continue but I’ll stick around for now.
And on that note I posted.
I wonder how many locked doors there are here.
You mean you’re considering leaving?
Could you tell me why?
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I cannot speak for Kirathel on their behalf, but I can give you my reasoning. Though before I dribble on about that, I’ll clarify that I am not leaving the RP as of yet. After all, I designed Malaco* to not require much effort on my part, so it’s not like I’m losing too much time here. So let’s get to it.
Confusing, potentially false advertising.
From the start, the game appears to have lied about itself. But can such an accusation stand, if we were told nothing?
So we’re told again and again in the beginning, but that doesn’t mean anything other than trying to sell us on a mystery. But by this type of mystery, there are only a few ways this could end; dream or reality, perhaps both. A player goal, not really a character one. Making me wonder not how my character will figure out, nor if I can solve it as I have no interest in it, but how such a vision will be executed.
But it looked as though, by signup requirements, to be character focused. Later confirmed on that front as well:
If written to draw in players to figure out a mystery, how is this going to align?
From that line, it is vague how exactly it will start but it gave me an idea. If player and character are aligned, then perhaps all the characters started off separate, in their own dream. Maybe just the ending section before waking up in a location they expected to be in. Only to look in the mirror, see something odd (nightmare mutation), rub their eyes and things appear normal again and dismiss it as odd sleepiness. Small instances like that, or perhaps large for some, occasional interrupting. Before everything goes far off the rails.
A later clarification seems to support this idea.
We know the dreams will met together. In other posts Winger indicated that there’s a party, so all the player character have to come together somehow. However, the method for doing so was not known.
Perhaps, in the seemingly normal world, only each character could see their dream/nightmare melding or popping into “reality,” while the others cannot. For an inciting incident, a mass panic of people freaking out over different things that no one else can see aside from the one. Bring the party together by accident in this panic and deciding to resolve this mystery. Even if their own visions are also making them seem insane. Only for things to grow worse as they start seeing each other’s dreams/nightmares as things went along.
Or all the dreams are melding that way near the start. Still with the more subtle notions, it’s just others can also see the strange mutations that occasionally pop up. Or stay for awhile, it can vary. But something that makes it still seem like the dream is just yours, makes you think you woke up, only for reality to go mad and figure out if you ever really woke up. But perhaps that is too similar to several movies.
Which brings me to the start of the game proper.
Without your post Ghid, I would have had no idea what to respond to with that first post. And as a quick aside, the same goes for character creation. Due to the vagueness of the signups outside of drug’n dreamy fun, I still was unsure of what characters were being sought after. Even now I can’t say I know for sure, other than a small list of what isn’t wanted.
But immediately, even though this opening post gives me zero to work with, I understand what’s happening. All the characters have just been thrust together. Mutation, changes, etc., it’s all just there.
Should I care at all? Why should any character be concerned? Certainly, it could be the opposite of what was expected. Instead of normality going to madness, it’s madness becoming more mad and that’s just reality now. Or there is a reality to escape to but I really don’t care now. Just a bunch of kidnapped kids thrown into a closet and told to be nice to each other.
Boring.
Snoozefest.
You’ve lost me instantly and I already didn’t have much investment. Then, for seemingly no reason, continued to keep the characters trapped in the closet. It can be argued dream logic, or another player’s lack of activity, but it sure is frustrating for a physically strong character like Eve was unable to just open a door.
So what was the point of forcing everyone to start out in a small closet? Where the characters supposed to just think/dream it open? The rules don’t make that sound viable. Not sure what all we can do period, this doesn’t come off as a tutorial or practice area to learn reality.
It just seems like the GM had no idea how to really get all the characters together and early interactions. Thus finding this to be the cheapest option, may to add character confusion and mystery. Uncompelling, uninteresting.
Perhaps this statement was to say that GM involvement was to be minimal. And heavily specific opening scenarios I presented early was too much work. But for something so character driven, they were immediately put in a situation where they don’t have agency and can’t really do anything without heavy GM activity. What are we supposed to do when we’re in a tiny world that ends with the GM?
Did it lie? Well, technically no. The characters did wake up in a place that may or may not be reality. But it started in a way no one expected and likely not in a positive one. I imagine others had very different ideas for how it would begin and this was not it.
So is this dream worth it? Not at all so far, but I’m merciful and patient, I’m willing to let it prove me wrong.
*- For those curious, in a lot of RPs I join, my first character is the envelope pusher. Not something that I think wouldn’t be allowed, but certainly bend the limitations. Testing GMs and players alike, gauging reaction and resolve. Malaco is a joke, but I can write decently compelling absurdities on the fly.
This is also why my second characters tend to be more serious. Ole Villy Blund has a lot more pre-thought and planning in his design. Not to say Malaco has no thought or intention behind his design. You have no idea the amount of references he’s pulling.
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While I disagree with a lot of your takeaways from the rp so far, I do want to clarify that outside of the initial idea and worldbuilding, I had no part in planning events that transpired and I have no idea what’s going to happen next. Had the exit to the rest of the world happened right after the first flight of stairs a lot of these issues might not be as prevalent as they now are, but now my part in this is causing enough of a character-driven scenario to keep things alive until the GM - and the rest of the plot - catches up.
Regardless, I do expect to have the time to respond in greater detail to your post - in a bit. I only glanced at TTV before meal consumption was slated to occur, and I see that Winger is typing as of this post, and he will likely have more thoughts on the matter than I have currently.
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All right, well: let’s see how a fellow writer can respond to this
It seems to me that it was the opposite. Yes, there’s a mystery, but the main draw is the character interactions and how they play out. In fact, the “mystery” is not really a mystery to us the players (more on that in a moment), so we’re meant to focus on how our characters react.
With that in mind, I focused on making a character who I knew would be ideal for character interactions. A character who will lead to the most interesting interactions, because she has no idea how to do it right and will try anyway.
Not to criticize, but Malaco seems to be the antithesis of this. All of his interactions with other characters have been simple at best, the type of interactions you’d expect to have with a talking goldfish. The character works as a bit of comedic relief, and is honestly one of my favorites; but he hasn’t really contributed to the character interactions that much.
I can see how you could reach that conclusion, though I had quite a different idea.
For one: the idea is that you don’t know if you’re awake or dreaming, right? You’re awake and aware, but aspects of your dream are here. What you suggest – aspects of the dream seem to blip in and out, and are visible only to you – seems (to me) less like a dream bleeding into reality and more like PTSD. Of course, things would change when/if the other characters saw your dream, but for the start…
Of course, there is one thing you bring up: wouldn’t it make sense if we all just woke up in our beds or whatever and things were different? but I think this works out well enough – did someone, as you put it, kidnap a bunch of kids and throw them in a closet, or is this just a different type of dream? We the players have a clue, based on the fact that we’re interacting with real(?) people, but our characters do not.
Though, ironically – and this didn’t occur to me until the RP was underway – Sue was actually not ideal for such a mystery, due to the whole amnesia thing; she’d’ve had no hint to the dream aspect on her own. Eve, however, is one of the more fitting for this aspect, and Kirathel has played very well into the whole “thinks this is still a dream” aspect.
Though there is one thing that confused me:
A bit odd to say when we all just wake up in the same room. Makes me think something else was considered/rejected?
To me, it seemed like a puzzle we were meant to solve, and the GM did give us clues: for example, having Alexis’ randomly thrown screw locate the door. Then, it seems the door wasn’t supposed to be opened by brute strength, but out-smarting it; hence, Miles opened it just fine from the outside.
At least, that’s how I read it.
But isn’t that the whole point of containing the player characters in a small room? To force them to interact with each other, rather than focusing on their own lives, or plot events? Sure, the GM drops some hints as to how we’ll ultimately escape, but most of the beginning was just us interacting with each other. Heck, even now that the door is open, it still is: currently like half the party is focused on Basil’s wound, and Sue, while trying to investigate, has also made a very awkward attempt to talk to Jung.
On this, I will agree.
Gihd’s post, right afterward, seems to indicate we were supposed to write about how our character was, what they thought, before they woke up here. This wound up be comparatively short for Sue, due to the whole amnesia thing, though the rest of the party did fairly well at it. Some indication that this is what was to be expected might’ve prevented the beginning from being quite so confusing; but then, I suppose that’s what Gdih’s post wound up being: an example of what the rest of us were expected to do.
Of course, I’ve no idea what Winger or Gidh have to say on the matter and find it very sus that the two co-GMs started typing at the exact same time. I’m just saying, have you ever seen Winger and hGid in the same room together? I just thought I’d share my unsolicited one-and-a-half cents. It would be two cents, but you know how this economy is. Dear Mata Nui, someone stop me, I’ve stopped making sense and am now rambling…
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I do not mean this patronizingly, I do not mean this condescendingly, I do not mean this pretentiously, but like … thank you? Honest criticism is at this point in my creative journey a commodity, and I just wanna let you know that there’s zip zilch zero hard feelings or anything like that at all. No drama, no grumpiness.
But that said, after five minutes of disjointedly trying to type a response, I think I need to put it down for tonight. It’s really late, and I have a pretty long test tomorrow. I really would appreciate it if you’d be so gracious as to give me some time.
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What, you mean you can’t just instantly type up 784 words(yes, I counted) on the spot to reply to criticism? And you call yourself a GM; how shameful.
/mt (that means this is a joke, kiddos)
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So, before addressing Ajtazt’s post, I should cover Willess because he does a good job at saying a lot of what I was gonna say. Darn guy does everything better, next thing you’ll be telling me he writes boards novels better than I do! insulting
The possibility still very much exists for Malaco to be deep and compelling once the motivation for him exists. However, I really do like him as a comic relief, so I hope that element is preserved.
Oh there’s definitely mystery involved here, but keep in mind what Winger and I both agreed needed to be stressed in the main post here:
Now I know intelligence and logic expectations coming from Ghid is just rich, but hear me out
Rather painful looking back, but the main draw of this RP was good writing and character interaction. It’s part of why it’s been able to survive this long with no content. That being said, this intro scene - which should have taken a month of casual posting at most to accomplish - is nearing three months of sluggish perpetuation. Soon as Basil’s leg is patched up the party is owed actual progress, and I will fight to get it.
Hopping over to Ajtazt’s post:
This will happen. Wasn’t necessarily advertised on the tin, but one character is slated to have one heck of a wild ride. Also going to be fighting for this to start happening.
I have to admit, I specified on my signup that my character example wasn’t to be followed, but everyone followed it regardless. Still, if the initial post really was that vague, I guess it was a good thing I rushed to get my signup in.
The idea of dreams’ mutations bleeding backwards was brought up frequently, but never starting off in a neutral state and ending up in the aforementioned mutation. Taking the L on this one; it’s 100% on us for not coming up with something more creative.
Hopping back again:
And now after I just said we failed the creativity test, I will turn right around and say we’re actually being rather creative with this one. It’s the one area of what I wrote up that had a great amount of thought put into it, and I’ll be Eljay’s great uncle if it doesn’t tug at the heartstrings near the end.
I’ll continue to defend Winger on a lot of the issues here, but this was just lazy. Like really lazy.
I’d like to point out that a lot of the major character interaction has been pretty Basil-related. That’s because I keep bringing up events and giving the characters the option to care. Some only mildly do, like Eve, and some like Malaco don’t care at all, but the option exists regardless.
Hopping back again again:
This part is 100% true. Even I had no idea how it would begin.
And honestly, some back-and-forth on the future plan between me and Winger couldn’t hurt much, hint hint at Winger. It was my intent to be as uninvolved of a party as possible in order to be impressed by the plot points coming up in the future, but given that there are now major critique posts about how the rp has been a drag this entire time, it’s evident I should have a more active role so the ball can move a bit faster.
Hopping over one final time:
Two thoughts here.
-
Ahead of the rest of the posts, Kirathel did send me some critique in PM, and with permission I will be forwarding it to Winger. Just in case anyone’s worried that Kirathel’s staying silent on the topic.
-
I really, really like what’s slated for Sue. Some characters will have a lot of violent goings-on relating to their dream/nightmare, others more tragic or adventurous, but Sue’s is almost entirely heartfelt. Doesn’t mean there won’t be danger and drama, but Sue’s backstory is going to play in a lot.
I cannot be forced to testify against myself.
wait
As Winger said, anything more you two (or anyone else playing rn) has to add, by all means do so. The more issues we take care of earlier on, the less there will be later down the line, and the better time everyone’s going to have, which is what we want most of all.
reference
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Yes, I just replied to a topic about an RP about dreams with logic and then ramblings.
the crazy part is that it was completely unintentional.
I should go to sleep now
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POV: You’re ajtazt/TLR up late in a VC and see three people all typing responses for a long while.
Glad to see my old charm still holds up. 
Like I said, I’m a patient fellow, I can wait. Though I have been told plenty would rather take hellfire over my criticism, so maybe hold off on the thanks part. Not to say I would purposefully do it, but it could get ugly.
But that’s why I’m public about these things. To get other viewpoints and for others to put me down if I have gone too far.
Not that I go down without a fight.
I’m more of a meta fellow, a very amateurish psychologist if being generous. My focus tends to be more on aspects that leads GMs, players, etc. into making certain decisions, the manipulation and directing of human minds. Game mechanics, rules, narrative, all helpful tools in leading or see what intention lies behind the curtain. After all, no matter how different the character or story is from the creator, it still comes from the same place. With correct directing of the person, the portion they write will follow suit, even if their work should be doing something else.
Like I said, Malaco is a joke character, but there was more planned for him to do. He was supposed to veer into something more sooner than this, but nothing has really existed yet to warrant that lane change. I need viable material to work with or write absolute nonsense, hence my earlier statements of writing a Malaco miniseries rather than contributing. Because in the current situation, him interacting heavily with the other characters would accomplish as much as his current lack of such.
But focusing on the larger picture, the idea of the game potentially be translated into another form is always on my mind. Writing is a major focus, yes? Then the lack of direction or stated expectancy of what should be done isn’t helpful. We are the monkeys being thrown at a typewriter and hoping Shakespeare comes out.
Sure, it’s still a game and collaborative to a certain end and there is some allure of mystery trying to be kept. It will just make what will already be a long task of translating the RP’s events into a viable story even harder without more concrete direction.
Thus, with what’s been presented so far, Malaco’s contributions would only make that messier. And in a rewrite, would potentially be given a backseat, as is the nature of his type. Might as well make that easier.
Even as mechanical as I am, I’m still human and still reactionary. I need reason to respond and to make Malaco do something.
I would respond to more, but I am now getting screeched at to clean. Why can’t these people ever inform me ahead of time when additional cleaning is expected.
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Good luck with your test.
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On second thought, and maybe it’s just me having being drained from mindless monotony, but I think my response here managed to cover most of the core things. Supplemental sections could be chatted about later, if wanted.
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So, correct me if I am wrong, and if I am that’s unfortunate because the rest of this post is based off of this premise (and if it isn’t, let me know and I’ll reassess), but it seems like you’re criticizing two main things: the pacing and the plot.
To the first. I am … excruciatingly aware of the issue of pacing in this, at the moment. I mean, we’re still part of the freakin prelude.
The game was always meant to be character-centric, writing-centric, theme-centric. And an unintended byproduct of that was … what we have now. The drawn out character interactions, the feeling of getting nowhere plot-wise. Until now, I’d perceived that as being … not a good thing, but not exactly a bad thing. Just ever so slightly, unexpectedly, overtly … painstaking.
I intentionally didn’t plop it immediately into the action, for several reasons, some based in creativity, others based in my own literary “morality”. I get that it’s generally tradition to start something, especially something of this caliber, as “Action! Now! Start!”
And I just … didn’t. And if that’s deemed a problem, I can pretty easily rectify it. Less roundabout solutions, more straightforward do this do that. But that segues into issue two.
I feel like it’s a little bit unfair to criticize the plot, when there … hasn’t been one, yet. Due to the somewhat unprecedentedly long interactions, we’re just starting. And there were more creative ways to start this, and some of them I considered, but I went with this because it transitioned the best into the main “meat” of the story. It was ultimately a creative decision, and I understand that it may well have been a flawed one, but it was what it was - not some sort of incompetent misgiving or misguidance.
The motivation, capital M, hasn’t been revealed yet, and again, that was unprecedented in timing.
But that does lead me to a query: much of your original post talks about what could have been, and your misgivings and expectations, but: how would you propose this should be fixed? Should The PlotTM be expediated? Should motivation become clearer sooner? Have I misunderstood you entirely and made a fool of myself by defending the wrong thing? All this and more on tomorrow’s episode of “Whinger typing disjointed replies too late at night”.
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Having discussed next to none of this in PM since Ajtazt’s post, I’ll save my more scathing thoughts for when we get around to talking about it there. But at least to me, a lot of the issues here would be solved if the characters had something definite to do. Right now the goal is ‘leave’ and has involved some convoluted explanation to a puzzle that should have been much more straight-forward and require less gm hand-holding. Since the gm hasn’t been around often enough to justify that approach, it’s left the characters aimlessly meandering in space and filling posts with large, well-formatted bodies of text that accomplish nothing outside of an internal monologue.
Eventually that even for an ego lord like myself gets tiring. You start running out of things to say about yourself and you end up with a Malaco situation where his greatest contribution to the scene around him was choking on a piece of fungi in a gross manner which literally everyone else ignored.
Except ME, because I’m smart. Ignore the ego thing I just said.
In-game the RP has been in existence for about an hour, tops. But the actual amount of time passed is close to three months. That’s an awful long amount of time to write about the same characters milling in a room and overreacting. Which is why Basil had a seizure, broke the lightbulb, treaded in the glass, and is now bleeding profusely.
When the party gets through that door - whichever one it is - there should be a definite goal in sight. Head there, do this, get that, react to your situation or simply take in the world around you. I’m not sure what you’ve got planned beyond that top door, but as example, you have three flights of stairs to accomplish what should have been done with one.
Of course, I’ll defer to whatever your best judgement is with regards to your plan and how much you want me to be aware of at once. But something of substance needs to happen soon, preferably the moment after Basil’s able to move or be moved again. I have a good amount of patience here for my lovely co-child (don’t read into that) but another three months of nothing can only end one way.
And like Winger said, suggestions, please! If there’s something specific you’d like to see coming out of this, we’d really appreciate hearing about it. Let us know what your thoughts are so when I head to Winger’s home at 3 Am with a crowbar, it won’t look quite as suspicious.
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I would like to see Malaco with buff arms.
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This is a good suggestion. It will be considered thoroughly.
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In context this makes perfect sense.
However out of context it is very amusing.
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I think there’s a topic for that
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