i think…
definitive distinction between Mata, Metru, Hordika, and Inika, is difference in upper torso
Anyway, I think must keep the upper body ratio from metru torso ratio .
of course I hope to use Metru Torso in many ways.
(Flip upper and lower body, Like pohatu)
but It’s greed.
The (pointless) point of having custom torsos in the contest
As I’ve heavily demonstrated in this thread, I’m an insanely strict purist when it comes to what the Toa Hagah should look like, and that follows the 2005 aesthetic. Similar to how Helryx was often modeled using only pieces from 2001 to convey the fact that she was a prototype, I feel that the Hagah should look as similar as possible to the two we already have.
Imagine if they were canister sets. We can safely assume, obviously, that they have the same spearhead, same forearms, same feet, same thigh armor; I say this because those last two were staples of the Metru build as a whole and the arms are for play function. All the Metru and the two Hagah had the same feet and thigh armor. Does this limit creativity? Absolutely. Do I believe it’s necessary to ensure that the Hagah look as accurate as possible? Absolutely.
As I noted like, five messages before, the Hagah should ideally only change in color scheme, Kanohi, speartip, shoulders, shins, and chest plate.
I don’t see how using an overly complex build that foregoes consistency (with the other hagah), functionality (gear mechanism), simplicity and ease of replicability (just 2 pieces) for the sake of attaching an armour piece .5L closer to the chest is favourable here.
Also, if it’s something that would have to be “fixed” later in the art to even be canonically accurate, in a canon contest, I say just snip it in the bud and not allow it.
This is not the same deal as Artakha requiring the use of a relatively rare colour so a compromise for the sake of accessibility was needed, I’d argue that the prefab metru torso parts are far more accessible than all those extra parts required in the same colour used in any custom torso. I see no legitimate reason to compromise on this, just employ those custom torsos when you revamp the Hagah, after their base canon appearance has been decided.
I mean honestly that’s an instance where I’d be down to just allow it and leave it up to voters to pick it.
Yeah this is kinda what I’ve been saying all along I see no point in doing custom torsos since it only adds an unnecessary amount of complexity, lack of consistency, and makes recreation almost impossible for something that can be done with 2 parts to me having custom torsos only seems to be a thing to just flex your mocing skills or how good you are at making custom torsos.
Everything else I get for wanting to change since having the other Hagah just being brown, blue, white and black Iruni and Norik would be very boring even if that’s what they are supposed to be but the torso is just pointless y’know
It only makes it more complex for the builders though, so if they want that then there’s no reason not to let them.
And as I stated yesterday, if you allow both, chances are a metru torso will win anyways right
Honestly, what I’ve gleaned from this thread is essentially a battle between people who want to adhere to canon consistency and Flickr MOCists who want to flex how much greeble they can fit on a 7 x 5 x 3-stud platform while arguing that in some weird technicality it FITS CANON SORT OF
All right, I’d like to use one of my Hagah mocs to illustrate a point about cohesion
Which of these looks the most out of place, the least like they belong?
The answer to that, in my opinion, is Iruini. The others have brighter colours, while he has a darker colour. He also has different shins.
But IMO, they’re still a cohesive unit. Iruini has different shins and mettalic armor, Norik has different height, Pouks has a different shoulder armor… they all vary in ways that cancel each other out. Pouks doesn’t look like an outsider (to me) just because he has different shins.
Is it even a flex? Personally I find most, if not all of the custom examples uglier than the prefab parts. It’s just the remnant of a bygone era of “custom = better” rearing its ugly head once again.
Would it not be a greater flex to create something that looks great, within the parameters of what we know the characters should have?
I mean, it’s not like I wrote an entire essay explaining my point in great detail with several perfectly good images, only to find out that none of it was used in the Nak & Jay episode, where you seem to only opt for an outdated Vakama MOC (which can’t adequately be compared to the Hagah and wasn’t even posted in this topic by me, but an entirely different user). Maybe you just didn’t see them until after the fact, but I sent you those images you posted several hours before you went live for the specific purpose of providing as much information as possible to avoid any misunderstandings and to show that I am willing to have my build be put under intense scrutiny because I believe it can withstand it, but they weren’t used either.
I want to give the benefit of the doubt, but my patience is really being tested when you and Eljay, as TTV members, who are in charge of how to run these contests, intentionally misconstrue my argument (I say intentionally because surely there’s no way you missed that long of a post) and have the audacity to ask “what’s the point”. Granted, as I explained yesterday, the original intention of the MOC was pointless, but the build does have relevancy in these Hagah contests, as better demonstrated by my Kualus MOC. I will not stand idly as you make a strawman of my argument and then decide to lean towards banning custom builds as if you aren’t aware of any good arguments for them.
Maybe if you actually read my post:
Seriously, I’m tired of this. If you disagree with me, totally fine, but I am at my limit with being belittled and intentionally strawman’ed. I can handle it from regular users (and honestly pretty much expect it), but I expect better from Meso and Eljay.
I sort of kind of see your point, but I’ll show my perspective:
Pouks’s chest is completely exposed as he’s instead opted for a jockstrap. His shoulders face forward rather than to the side, his forearms are different, his thigh plates are different, and he has longer thighs introduced by the Visorak. His hands and foot sockets, rather than black, are colored, and his thighs are colored differently from his shins and torso. He stands out clearly.
I get your point but I do think your Pouks moc does stand out more than Iruni and norik no offense and I think that’s just 'cause of those Kalmah shells which kinda clash with the aesthetic also the one on the crotch looks kinda weird but the base frame totally fits in.
Ironic. I did actually, perhaps reading more than the first 2 lines of mine?
I read your essay.
It has had no effect on my stance.
I’m curios if your so hard set on custom torsos and so upset that we disagree with your argument then what is your argument for custom torsos?
(I haven’t read your essay and I would but there’s over 7 and a half hundred messages so I don’t know where it is)
People people
If custom torsos are as outrageous as we say they are, then logically no one would vote for them.
That doesn’t mean you have to outlaw them. Then everyone’s happy.
After the Helryx contest going off of logically voting isn’t gonna work because people may or will still vote for a custom torso because:
Prizes/rewards
Spite/to stick it to TTV
Name of the builder
Custom torso for custom sake
To troll
It looks cool
ect ect
Then why were none of the more up to date and relevant images from it used in the episode last night, and rather you went with my Vakama MOC only, that wasn’t even posted here by me?
With all due respect, can you put your arrogance aside for one moment and actually refute what I said if you don’t find it convincing?
I…literally just said:
It shouldn’t be that hard to have honesty when debating someone and not turn them into a strawmen, which is all I ask.
Also: as to why:
I tried to attach an inika Hewkii chestplate to my Mettur build Bomonga. It doesn’t fit.
Then I tried to attach it to my custom build Gaaki. It… kinda fit, not well.
Then I tried using a 2015 gearbox to make a torso… and it fits perfectly. Shoulders do wind up a bit wider, though.
My point? There are absolutely reasons to build custom torsos.
@Keplers @LightningBW
I think both of your opinions are valid. As I said, they look cohesive as a team, in my opinion, but what breaks cohesion can vary from one perspective to another.
Edit: @Dag, sorry if it seems like everyone’s focusing on your Vakama Moc because it’s the one I posted early on; I posted it because it was one of the best examples I had, though I agree you’ve since shown better examples.
