What would it take to destroy Marendar?

All of those quotes support my argument more than yours. He said “Not even going to go there” and “I’m not sure I want to get into a metaphysical discussion.”

That is very far from an confirmation that there’s no souls in Bionicle, especially since he also said “Agori are basically the same as we are.” So it leans towards yes for Agori, directly contradicting “souls explicitly do not exist.”

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I’m not sure what you are referring to as Level 1 or Level 2, but - Afaik, the only ones confirmed to have been “awakened” from the beginning were all Toa and Takua, while the only ones confirmed not have been were Matoran and possibly Kestora. Though, it is pretty reasonably to assume Makuta, Artakha, and Karzahni were.

For any others, it’s up in the air… There most likely were others who were not awakened originally, but there likely were also others who were.

If Marendar was built to hunt down Toa, and Toa had their sapience for the purposes of being able to do their combat-related duties, then it seems reasonable Marendar would need the same.

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This gives more weight to the theory that Marendar would be beaten by having it/him realise the error of his mission. An level 1 intelligence could not do it. Go against orders.

Hopefully Marendar kills tuyet before he realises toa are not evil. She needs to go XD.

Tuyet would show it is still a possibility and Marendar would continue observing the toa. Warning if they step out of the line, they would face him again.

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Personally I feel like she needs to go as well. I could see her serving as a beacon given her increased amount of Toa Power, thus becoming the first target.

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True - but i could see her destroying it and using that clout to gain control

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I made a short fan fic where Tuyet thought excatly like that. Untill Marendar questioned Tuyets iron fist with a literal iron fist.

Edit: it seems you already commented it. thanks :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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I can get behind this, I like the idea and it makes sense :+1:

Btw @Wolk what we mean by Level 1 and Level 2 intelligence is pre- and post-awakening respectively. Note that both of these are still above the intelligence of the pure “drone” characters like Vahki, Exo-Toa, or Maxilos.

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Sigh… this is why I really wish Greg had planned out the story serials more ahead of time instead of making it up as he went along. It would have rendered a lot of this moot.

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I like this excersise of opinions.

Also the competition was to be the most complex and unique of them all. And fanon version will be.

“Matoran” as in no Matoran are Awakened, or as in there are some Matoran who are Awakened, but not necessarily all?

All Matoran are awakened in the present. No Matoran except Takua was in the beginning.

@Wolk meant that originally only takua and toa were self aware. After mata nuis launch all matoran and sentiet soecies became self aware.

My theory is that Velika made the GSR inhabitants sentient to ruin the Great Beings plan. As a counter-measure, the Great Beings made Mata Nui introduce a religion that would make the now sentient Matoran stick to the programming they already intended, the Three Virtues. Therefore, the Matoran would do their task not because they were programmed to, but because it is their duty to the pantheistic God that gave their lives a meaning.

I think it has been confirmed that Velika did it only for curiositys sake. Also Greg said in interview he intends to rule so the mistakes of core war will not be repeated. Not fixing the planet would be a very great error. Although he did indeed endanger it by his meddling. good for us since we got an epic story out of it.

Mata Nui did not introduce religion per se, Matoran and toa had the unity, duty, destiny as guidelines and as culture evolved they elevated them or it was already elevated in their heads.

Further proof is that Mata Nui paid very little mind to the inhabitants inside him so he most likely did not give them a religion. If Matoran civil war did not give him reason to pay more attention then nothing would.

Also the three virtues were invented by story team before the awakening was invented. Automatons would not need three guidelines so there are some plot holes and inconsisticies in the story.

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The Three Virtues are just that - virtues. It’s not a religion at all.

@TERIDAX941 Mask of Mind Control or Rahi Control would take care of that. Or just alt. Teridax.

EDITED FOR DOUBLE POST -Spiderus Prime

Virtues are part of some religions.

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Yeah, and? There’s way more to a religion than just the virtues associated with it.

Idealising (or worshipping) one or more higher being, they have (probably) never seen?
Holidays based on that being gifting something to them?
Old men telling them stories about that being?
Having one send by the god(s), who stands for peace?
A special building to show their belief in their god(s)?
Symbols and statues of their god(s)?

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The Great Takara was effectively a religious gathering as well. I know Lego strove to keep a healthy distance from religious elements, but much of the Matoran’s relationship with Mata Nui was very clearly derivative of both Oceanic and European theocracy

I think Geetonguga summed the matter up quite nicely - the principles existed in advance, and as culture developed, so did the collective view of said principles

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What does any of that have to do with the Three Virtues? Way to change the subject.