What would it take to destroy Marendar?

True - but i could see her destroying it and using that clout to gain control

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I made a short fan fic where Tuyet thought excatly like that. Untill Marendar questioned Tuyets iron fist with a literal iron fist.

Edit: it seems you already commented it. thanks :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:


I can get behind this, I like the idea and it makes sense :+1:

Btw @Wolk what we mean by Level 1 and Level 2 intelligence is pre- and post-awakening respectively. Note that both of these are still above the intelligence of the pure “drone” characters like Vahki, Exo-Toa, or Maxilos.


Sigh… this is why I really wish Greg had planned out the story serials more ahead of time instead of making it up as he went along. It would have rendered a lot of this moot.


I like this excersise of opinions.

Also the competition was to be the most complex and unique of them all. And fanon version will be.

“Matoran” as in no Matoran are Awakened, or as in there are some Matoran who are Awakened, but not necessarily all?

All Matoran are awakened in the present. No Matoran except Takua was in the beginning.

@Wolk meant that originally only takua and toa were self aware. After mata nuis launch all matoran and sentiet soecies became self aware.

My theory is that Velika made the GSR inhabitants sentient to ruin the Great Beings plan. As a counter-measure, the Great Beings made Mata Nui introduce a religion that would make the now sentient Matoran stick to the programming they already intended, the Three Virtues. Therefore, the Matoran would know do their task not because they were programmed to, but because it is their duty to the pantheistic God that gave their lives a meaning.

I think it has been confirmed that Velika did it only for curiositys sake. Also Greg said in interview he intends to rule so the mistakes of core war will not be repeated. Not fixing the planet would be a very great error. Although he did indeed endanger it by his meddling. good for us since we got an epic story out of it.

Mata Nui did not introduce religion per se, Matoran and toa had the unity, duty, destiny as guidelines and as culture evolved they elevated them or it was already elevated in their heads.

Further proof is that Mata Nui paid very little mind to the inhabitants inside him so he most likely did not give them a religion. If Matoran civil war did not give him reason to pay more attention then nothing would.

Also the three virtues were invented by story team before the awakening was invented. Automatons would not need three guidelines so there are some plot holes and inconsisticies in the story.


The Three Virtues are just that - virtues. It’s not a religion at all.

@TERIDAX941 Mask of Mind Control or Rahi Control would take care of that. Or just alt. Teridax.


Virtues are part of some religions.


Yeah, and? There’s way more to a religion than just the virtues associated with it.

Idealising (or worshipping) one or more higher being, they have (probably) never seen?
Holidays based on that being gifting something to them?
Old men telling them stories about that being?
Having one send by the god(s), who stands for peace?
A special building to show their belief in their god(s)?
Symbols and statues of their god(s)?


The Great Takara was effectively a religious gathering as well. I know Lego strove to keep a healthy distance from religious elements, but much of the Matoran’s relationship with Mata Nui was very clearly derivative of both Oceanic and European theocracy

I think Geetonguga summed the matter up quite nicely - the principles existed in advance, and as culture developed, so did the collective view of said principles


What does any of that have to do with the Three Virtues? Way to change the subject.

And then Senit provided additional examples of the religious connotations of the story.

The change in subject is all on you.

Even if you want to make the argument that the Three Virtues themselves aren’t religious, regardless of everything else, just say that; don’t belittle Senit’s point by dismissing it as irrelevant for continuing a point that you brought up.


I wasn’t aware that he was using the term “the Three Virtues” to refer to the entire Matoran pseudo-religion.

He wasn’t; you are entirely justified in claiming that the Virtues themselves aren’t religious. That is a totally valid point to make.

However, that doesn’t make it okay to dismiss an argument as irrelevant without addressing the points it makes, especially when the points matter to the argument.

Even if there’s nothing about the virtues themselves that is inherently religious, the context provided by the rest of the story certainly steers them in that direction.

Again, there’s no right answer here: the argument can certainly be made that the Virtues aren’t religious, but the argument could also be made that they are. You’re the one who made the claim that there needed to be more than just virtues to be a religion, so don’t get snarky when someone provides proof of there being more than just virtues.

Also, in the interest of adding something to the actual discussion, this line from the Metru Nui book certainly stands out to me as being particularly religion-y: