Sure, but consider the dreaded (here’s my Godwin’s Law invocation, or the equivalent) Hoseryx entry. Should a meme vote become canon just because it saw the most votes? The existing canon precedent should shut down extreme entries.
I do not have the energy to reply to someone here again because they simply do not understand the over-arching point of what I was saying in a post of mine from months ago now and instead are trying to argue with each sentence completely separate of eachother and from their original context.
instead, I’ll just post this example of some interesting and diverse Metru builds again that would fit snugly within Meso’s proposed criteria
Obviously you need to regulate the Metru-length socket connections for the upper legs with matching Metru thigh plates, they need to have Hagah forearms and Metru/Hagah shoulders, Hagah feet… I think the idea is clear here.
Generally speaking, yeah, like @Kini_Hawkeye stated, the thing that separates the Hagah from Artakha or Helryx is their status as part of a team. There has to be some element of cohesion to their design, otherwise it defeats the purpose and could border on not being canon compliant at all (at least, according to Greg’s “ruling” on this subject.). Bit of a different situation here than other characters; the Hagah, while highly in demand (obviously) are inherently more restrictive. Which is exactly why Option 2 is being tossed around at all; is it really worth all this hassle?
I dunno. I’ve seen a lot of instances in this topic thus far of awesome looking Metru builds, and I urge you to keep all of them coming. My question really boils down to: Would they be deemed acceptable? Do they have enough cohesion with the Hagah? I see a lot of people prioritizing emphasis on metallic colors, things like that, etc. while some don’t. Finding the balance is the most important part.
So, like, I actually support incredibly rigid strictures on the Hagah design, but I do want to play devil’s advocate for this specific sentence because the reasoning is technically off: the Hagah come from all over the place, and they don’t necessarily need to have the same build, any more than the Toa Mangai do. The only reason to adhere to the Hagah build is because Greg explicitly made that call.
The way I see it, a metru build is simply a model that uses the metru torso, and has similar proportions and articulation. The types of limbs shouldn’t matter very much, I think. Going by this Nenon wouldn’t be considered a metru build since she’s too tall. I’d argue that the purple Onewa moc works, however.
I don’t see what the issue is here. I respect Greg’s decision, but I’d personally prefer if Pouks had the standard mask of emulation, just because that’s how I’m (And I’m sure, the same applies to many other people) used to seeing him.
I wrote something similar on the old discussion topic, but I’ll say it again here: There are a few examples of inconsistency already in bionicle sets.
Nuparu is the only McToran-style character with two disk throwing arms.
The red vahki and black vahki are the only two vahki who’s color schemes don’t match with there toa metru counterparts.
Jaller and Kongu Mahri are the only ones in the team with green eyes
(edit) Oohnorak is the only visorak to have the shorter thighs
You bring up great points, but there’s a difference between LEGO themselves introducing an outlier/inconsistency and fans doing so. LEGO can justify it because they’re the official source.
I think enforcing similar color blocking would cut down on excessive greebling, or at least negate it as a concern. Norik and Iruini have large blocks of color (as they’re made of larger pieces). If similar color blocking was enforced, greebles would either have to all be removed or made to be the same color, in which case they could be imagined to be a single part and therefore wouldn’t clash as much with the other Hagah.
It’s not a concrete rule, unfortunately, but it’s at least as clear as the rules for the Artakha contest were, I think.
Good point, that distinction is important.
Part of me still wishes that wasn’t the call he made… alas, here we are. XD
A little bit unrelated, but if we do go forward with the contest as normal, can we also have a rule that says you must show the front, back, and side profile of your MOC? Because there were incredible looking Helryx and Artakha MOCs in the last contests that were straight up lies because they only look good at one or two angles. And frankly, you can make anything look good in a picture if you have it at a 3/4 angle, but once I looked at breakdown photos and studio files, it just fell apart. I think it helps gives the best idea of what we’re voting for if we get these at a 90 degree angle front, back, and side.
could’ve sworn that was already in the rules
It is, it’s on voters to look at entry topics to see other pictures.
4. A minimum of four (4) photos must be provided. Front, Side, Back, and an Entry Photo (The one you want used in the polls).
Maybe. I guess I could see it. Proportions, and all that.
Far as I know, the thigh guards were used on every “Metru build” set just because they were the only pieces available.
I see even less reason to restrict the forearms: the Toa Metru and the Toa Hagah used different pieces, so why couldn’t we? Why single out the forearms for standardization, but not the shins?
Same for the shoulders; Norik used different shoulder armour from Iruini.
Here’s the overarching consideration: did Lego use those certain pieces because they considered them to be part of the “standard build”, or because other options didn’t exist?
I don’t really think there is.
The problem isn’t whether or not Lego will be okay with mismatched Hagah. It’s whether or not the mismatched Toa Hagah would fit in with canon.
And the existing canon shows that other groups have mismatched patterns, regardless of where that canon came from.
If it was I didn’t see many of them. Must’ve missed that rule.
Edit: as I look back at some entries from the past artakha contest, they still put them at a 3/4 angle and said that was the front photo. I’m talking about a real straight forward from the front, no 3/4 angle photo where we see the actual profile of a moc
It’s no wonder why people would point out that an entry into a canon contest blatantly goes against canon, even if the entrant wasn’t aware of it.
That’s the problem with these canon contests. As soon as a character is given a canon representation, any conflicting headcanon people may have about that character becomes void, but in this particular case, you are advocating for a MOC that utilizes a popular headcanon to overwrite previous canon, which is why I find your statement so hypocritical.
I can only assume you’re referring to me since you won’t directly speak to me, which is in all honesty pretty belittling. If anything I said about your view was misunderstood or the quotes of yours I used were taken out of context, please correct me. I don’t want anything I said to be inaccurate.
Let me ask you directly, then. Given that you prefer Pouks to have a standard Mask of Emulation, would you vote for entries that do so in this canon contest, despite canon saying otherwise? If not, there is no issue, but I read your intentions differently.
Hear me out, what if “Metru Build Compliance” is based on a score system, and each moc has to meet a certain number of the requirements, but not all of them, with the general aesthetic being mandatory?
For example, the checkboxes could be:
Upper arms and legs
Exact Shield Piece
And only say 5/8 or so of those would be required! This would allow a little leeway and creative freedom, while also ensuring all mocs bear some commonalities to their inspiration.
I’ll refer you to this definition as it would clearly defunc nenon as a metru build but it will still allow for freedom from creators
an example I wiped up just a few minutes ago.
I see no reason to not have a MOC contest then an art portion.
Also, in my opinion, a MOC should be free to use whatever torso and limb builds the builder wants – if it strays too far from looking like a Toa Metru in design, voters can reject it. But I think having the option for custom builds emulating the Metru torso or variations, for example, is important.
I totally understand why you all behind the scenes wouldn’t want to allow something out there like this in.
If I was allowed a say though, I’d argue that Hoseryx was an outlier. Aside from Hoseryx, pretty much all of questionable Helryx mocs were ousted almost immediately. The one with the nuva boobs, the one with the tiny Gali master head (I’m definitely forgeting some, but still).
Same with Artahka. We even had some similarly out there Artahka mocs in his contest, like that one that was a skeletal black demon looking dude with Edward Scissor Hand’s … scissor hands.
That MoC didn’t make it to the finals. People could’ve rallied behind it, but they didn’t. It was just an unusual take on the character that had a very small shot at being canonized.
However, I totally understand not wanting to include that MoC you posted earlier. I understand wanting to head off a potential Hoseryx tier disaster before it starts, it had to have been a huge stress to deal with that.
In the end, we’ll all accept whatever you guys decide are worthwhile candidates, whatever definition that is. You host the contest and therefore have a lot of say in who is allowed in. I just don’t think that kind of a moc would be a massive problem, though I have been wrong before, and it’s not really my place to make the decision anyways. I’ll respect whatever you guys choose, man.
Yeah I’m looking back at more of these entries in past contests. They have 3/4 angle photos of their Mocs and saying that’s the front picture. Same with the back and even the side with some of them. While that’s fine, i do want a straightforward 90 degree front picture, side picture, and back picture. So just a minor refinement with that rule would be nice