Where is the Greg's answers about Kanohi Suletu?

[Bukkey]

I know the inorganic Suletu has never released, and unknown.
and Also, I know Greg’s reply that “Basically, the appearance of Kongu’s Suletu is almost the same as the regular shape” .(source is here, etc…)
but I have a question to your great knowredges!

I have previously seen some Greg’s answers, it measns about:

• “whether a non-organic Suletu is symmetrical depends on whether you consider the scaly areas present on Kongu’s to be the result of alteration” ( This answer’s source has be find out. Here.)

• “Kongu’s Suletu was may damaged by being abandoned outdoors for a long time, which may have affected its appearance during alteration” (Still hasn’t found source)

• “After all, About Inorganic Suletu’s appearance, I’ll leave it to the imagination of the fans.”(Still hasn’t found source)

I am big fan of @MaskMaker(KhingK)'s Suletu, because when I saw this, I felt that the design so matches with those 4 answers.
but I forgot those sources. If you know where is, please tell me!

[Tarkur]

I think the organic Suletu is a dope mask and wouldn’t mind using it as an inorganic mask. I know this doesn’t really answer your question but from how I look at it and interpret what Greg said I think the organic one is still the canon answer between the two. Had the mask been symetrical it wouldn’t work as the mask design in that case would hint at a broken mask and as is canon broken masks don’t work iirc. Now could the scales be dirt, moss, mushrooms or other bacteria growing on the mask. Yes it could be but its also important to note that the Suletu they found in the ground I would assume was inorganic iirc. Since its the red star which turns them organic. Which leds to me believe that the inorganic mask, is either just the organic mask but in metal or that the organic mask is a broken Suletu that the red star fixed with organic matter. If the latter is the case there is still enough evidence to make the case that the design is first and foremost asymetrical, note the dots under the broken eye and the missing lines on the broken side. As well as that all organic tissue is removed.

TL:DR: KingKs Inorganic Suletu is probably the closest to one we have at the moment if you assume the mask Kongu found was broken. However it isn’t perfect since its a symetrical design for a design that wants to be asymetrical. If we assume it wasn’t broken when they found it the inorganic suletu would look identical to the organic Suletu with the scales removed and exchange for a flat surface.

[Bukkey]

Thank you @Tarkur !

I think that the dots’ asymmetry is resalt of transforming into organic.
(because Kongu’s one has symmetry dots on its chin)
and about the disappearance of organic tissue, I interpret it as relationship between Toa Ignika’s mask and Toa Mata Nui’s mask: defferent arrangement of the same design during the production of toys.
(If LEGO release the Inorganic Suletu for Mata/Metru head now, I think they will cut the back of the mask a little naturaly, to secure the light of for eyes)

Honestly, I don’t mind if the regular Suletu is asymmetrical.
But I can’t stop to seeing that the design team had “playful” with the Kongu’s mask on “organic expression”.
I don’t hate this, and I am the person who rather a person who likes beautiful left-right asymmetry.
However, given that Krakua is wearing a regular Suletu, I suspect that this organic tissue is unique to Kongu’s one.

(Or if the regular Suletu had “scales”, I guess the shape of the “scales” was a more linear pattern arrangement: like a turtle shell.)

[Tarkur]

@Bukkey

But I can’t stop to seeing that the design team had “playful” with the Kongu’s mask on “organic expression”.

Maybe…

@Bukkey

However, given that Krakua is wearing a regular Suletu, I suspect that this organic tissue is unique to Kongu’s one.

It might be different from Kongu’s Suletu but I still think an inorganic mask will be asymetrical as well and not symetrical like KingKs is. Both sides are visualy distinct enough to conclude that it isn’t symetrical

[Dag]

Doesn’t know.

Official Greg Dialogue | Page 14

Krakua’s Suletu having a scaly half depends on whether the scales on Kongu’s were a result of it being organic or not.

Official Greg Discussion | Page 180

The nature of the masks has to do with how they got them (the Suletu being buried for quite some time).

Official Greg Discussion | Page 127

Kongu’s Suletu is its true shape.

Official Greg Discussion | Page 143

All Suletu’s have reptilian growth like Kongu’s.

Official Greg Discussion | Page 161

Inorganic Inika masks look pretty much the same as their organic counterparts.

Official Greg Dialogue | Page 18

Inorganic Inika masks look somewhat different from their organic counterparts.

Chat with Greg Farshtey | Page 514

[Bukkey]

@Dag

The nature of the masks has to do with how they got them (the Suletu being buried for quite some time).

Oh Maybe This is the 2nd’s source! Thank you! (It was actually a more ambiguous expression, though)

I knew Greg said, “Kongu’s Suletu has the same shape as regular”.
but also He often seen said, “The shape and properties may change depending on the origin,” “It depends on what you think,” and “Maybe the Inika mask is a little different from the regular type.”
As a result of interpreting these half by half, My headcanon is “the part that does not seem to be broken has almost the same shape as the normal type”, and
"Except for the organic tissue, Kongu’s Suletu is the almost same with the regular shape, and similar to regular than other Inika mask. "
That’s why I liked the design of King K.

After all (which is also the source of the last question, and it still hasn’t be found), it seems that Greg’s response has changed over and over in a series of remarks.
I felt that he realy wanted to leave to it with Fans’ each headcanons.
(Sort Greg’s response from old to new, and it seemed to me that he wanted to obscure the answer with over time)

(Greg initially assumed that the Matoran mask, which was later canonized by fans as the Mask of Aging, was the “Kanohi Elda,” a design that changed like a game of word of mouth among Matoran because the shape of the Great Version was not so famous.
If I can use this as material for thought, I personally think that the other Inika masks may have a wider range of variations than Suletu, if we can take that into account.)

[Tarkur]

Made a quick moccup how I would design a inorganic Suletu based on the design of the organic Suletu. It was done in a bit of a hurry so its not the best it can be but I hope it gets my point across:

[Bukkey]

Thank you for your drawing, and it is so easy to understand!
I’m also OK if this design is Krakua’s! so cool!

The Khing K design is still my favorite, but to be honest, this is the second Suletu I’ve ever seen.
especialy, I like to cherish the left-right asymmetry peculiar to Suletu while resolving the of questions of scales!

[Huemus]

Maybe without the organic tissue, the mask should look like this:

Jokes aside, I do think the mask is asymetrical and the reptilian parts are just a thinner part in the inorganic one. KhingK’s Suletu is a really good aproximation, but it lack some points like the asymetry and the central comb.

[Dag]

When it comes to dealing with contradictions from Greg’s answers, BS01 and TGA have different methodologies. BS01 simply prefers answers that were given closest to Bionicle’s cancellation (2010-2011). TGA prefers answers that were chronologically first. Both ignore questions that are either inconclusive or appear to be “forgetcons” (unintentional retcons due to forgetfulness), and they both have exceptions for intentional retcons, where Greg acknowledges his previous answers, but still decides to give a different one (Ex: see Rahi and the Red Star) Both also take into consideration the consistency of an answer (how many times it’s repeated).

In the case of the Suletu, the “don’t know” and “Krakua’s Suletu having a scaly half depends on whether the scales on Kongu’s were a result of it being organic or not” answers can be discarded because they are inconclusive either way. The “inorganic Inika masks look somewhat different from their organic counterparts” answer can also be ignored because, based on Greg’s previous answers, it appears to be a forgetcon. That leaves four questions, three of which say the same thing, that Kongu’s Suletu is the standard shape for all Suletu’s, and one that says the inorganic Suletu looks the way it does because it was buried in the ground.

If you take the answer closest to 2010-2011, that would be this one. If you take the most consistent answer, that would be that Kongu’s Suletu is the standard shape. This is also supported by Jovan and Tobduk. However, if you take the earliest definitive answer, that’s the one that says Kongu’s Suletu looks the way it does because it was buried in the ground. However, I think that, considering it was the first answer, and the following few answers consistently say otherwise, I would say Greg since changed his mind.

@Bukkey

(Greg initially assumed that the Matoran mask, which was later canonized by fans as the Mask of Aging, was the “Kanohi Elda,” a design that changed like a game of word of mouth among Matoran because the shape of the Great Version was not so famous.
If I can use this as material for thought, I personally think that the other Inika masks may have a wider range of variations than Suletu, if we can take that into account.)

This might get some hate from people who like the Mask of Aging, but that’s something I’ve been trying to have overturned on BS01. The way the Mask of Aging became canon is a little insulting to the rest of the community. Not only did it retcon Greg’s previous answer as you’ve mentioned (and I would argue was a forgetcon), but it was simply a suggestion by Swert and Bonesiii from their headcanons. There was no poll like most other topics (Makuta regions, Mangai masks, etc.), so there was no community input.

[Bukkey]

Thank you @Huemus !
Thank you @Dag!

I’ve heard a lot about why Suletu’s regular shape is asymmetrical. I’m pretty convinced of that.
but I can’t give up my desire for Krakua to wear a defferent-shape Suletu, as long as Greg hasn’t made it clear, Sorry!
(I know, this is just my hope. and I believe you can understand what I want to say. and Really Thank you for using your time for me! )

@Dag

This might get some hate from people who like the Mask of Aging, but that’s something I’ve been trying to have overturned on BS01. The way the Mask of Aging became canon is a little insulting to the rest of the community. Not only did it retcon Greg’s previous answer as you’ve mentioned (and I would argue was a forgetcon), but it was simply a suggestion by Swert and Bonesiii from their headcanons. There was no poll like most other topics (Makuta regions, Mangai masks, etc.), so there was no community input.

This is so interesting. I didn’t know this.
I haven’t experienced this situation and have started interacting with the English-speaking BIONICLE community in the last few years so I didn’t know about such a deep topic.
(For better or worse, I innocently welcomed MoA as “new information revealed over the years” for I wasn’t involved in this uproar)

[TheJerminator]

@Dag

That leaves four questions, three of which say the same thing, that Kongu’s Suletu is the standard shape for all Suletu’s, and one that says the inorganic Suletu looks the way it does because it was buried in the ground.

Personally, I don’t see why these can’t all be true. It doesn’t seem that out of line to say that Kongu’s Suletu is the standard shape, but with some wear and tear from being in the ground.

@Dag

Not only did it retcon Greg’s previous answer as you’ve mentioned (and I would argue was a forgetcon)

So what’s the deal with this? I know there was some confusion around the image that is currently the Mask of Aging, but I’ve never figured out all of the details.

EDIT: I just checked out the Discussion page on BS01, and yeah, it does seem like a forgetcon.

[Bukkey]

Thank you @TheJermimator !

This is my wishful thinking, but if it were as clear a fact that Kongu’s Suletu is the same shape as the regular type as it is that Mata-Tahu’s Hau is the regular type, Greg would just assert it without reservation “as usual” (he did once).

I think there should be no reason to add at least Ambiguous expression, (I think that He remembers about Suletu, because he has be asked many similar questions from fans and his answers seem so to me)
and I would like to use this ambiguty for reinforce my headcanon that Krakua’s mask is symmetrical!

---

【EDIT and ADD / My speculation report about Suletu】

I read the entire series of replies with great interest!
And since yesterday, I had something to say, but I couldn’t put it into words, which made me frustrated and may have made people see me as a bit “stubborn” who won’t budge on any theory.

As a matter of fact, I have long had a speculation, bordering on delusion, about the possibility that regular Suletu was symmetrical.
I’ve finally managed to put it in writing, so anyone interested can read it in their spare time.

---

Suletu was originally conceived and submitted to LEGO by John Dexter, the winner of the Toa building contest held in 2005, when he entered the contest.
(In order to participate in this contest, you had to submit to LEGO a profile of the participating work Toa and a detailed description of the mask.)
In other words, this mask is almost the only one of the many Kanohi masks to have been created by a fan, not only in appearance, but even in name.

(Perhaps, the word “Suletu” was not registered as a trademark, so it may have been included in the list of available names. Also, considering the “mask setting” described later, the important thing is the setting called “telepathic mask”, and the name “Suletu” may have been added by LEGO when it was converted to canon.)

off course Greg must know this fact. And please remember a thing.
In BIONICLE project, Greg hadn’t design any set or piece, but only add stories and characters to them.
And in that time, only Greg and BIONICLE-team knows This complicated situation.(THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS)

The contest is in 2005, and Toa Inika’s release is in 2006.
And I remember (although I’m a little unsure) that his mask was written as “Hau” or “Hau-shaped Suletu” on the Krakua page of BS01 more than 10 years ago.
(Although he is now modified to be wearing “regular Suletu”)

When Fans saw Kongu’s “Suletu”, I think they were so surprised.
because it is unsimilar with Krakua’s one.
but they know Krakua’s one has not “true-shape”, and so, a fan asked this:

“Kongu’s Suletu is it’s true shape right?”
"Do All(regular) Suletu look like it’s mostly reptilian growth, like Kongu’s?

Greg saw this. and answered.

“Yes”.

I guess that a very complicated situation had born here - complicated situation that never be surface as a problem if no one is aware of it.
Please remember, Greg doesn’t any design. Translation, he never design Suletu.
And Only Official staff knows complicated situation about Suletu.

This is totally my conspiracy theory, but I think he probably wanted to say at this point, “This Suletu is “Regular shape”, unlike Krakua’s Hau-Suletu”.
And we may have taken his simple reply as it was - "Oh, so these scales and asymmetries are ‘regular shape’ too!
And then there is the possibility that Greg might have thought - “Ah… Yeah, OK. That’s right.”

In the story, Greg had gave only Suletu a special origin among the six Inika Masks.
Perhaps when the design team showed him the sample, he tried to explain the reason for its asymmetry.
Or perhaps it was because Greg, despite our enthusiasm, has a side of him that often seems to be unconcerned with consistency in design.
It is also possible that he thought “let’s make scale a regular type of Suletu, because design team made this” when releasing the Suletu.

but Some, or many Fans kept asking him the questions about scale and asymmetry.
My guess is that Greg was forced to consider importantly the fact that Krakua was the wearer of this mask, and as time went by, he began to give “vague answers”.

Thank you this long writeing!
I don’t intend to force this idea on anyone at all, but please consider it just a fan’s consideration or fantasy!

[Fusionx963]

call me crazy, but i prefer rothanak’s standard inika suletu

Inika Inorganic mask mods by Rothanak